BBO Discussion Forums: Missed slam - BBO Discussion Forums

All Vul.

How do you fly into the right slam starting from W or E respectively?

Easy enough if west deals. He has a 1H opening bid to which east responds 2D. In the current expert usage, virtually universal, this shows 5+. I am assuming 2/1

West raises to 3D and east shows his heart fit with 3H

West now hauls out exclusion via 5C. Not every expert plays this, but my preference is that when two suits have been bid and raised, one shows keycards in both suits.

It is common in exclusion to play 0314 responses so 5C fetches 5D, over which 5S asks for queens. 5N would be none, 5D the diamond queen, 5H the heart queen and higher bids both queens (5S would show the spade king as well)

Now west bids a confident 7 D.


With east dealer, it is far more difficult to avoid hearts

East opens 1N and now even small slam is not easy. After all, picture east with, say, KJxx xx AQx KQxx. Even 4H could fail!

West might even just use Texas, and they play 4H

Even if west bids 2D then jumps to 4H to show a mild slam try (assuming Texas), east has a minimum with no black suit controls

About the onl6 way I can see goin* to slam is if west splinters over 2H, which is far from clear. If he does, east has a huge hand in context and should drive to 6H. I see no way of finding diamonds.

If you think E being opener is too difficult, try changing the ♠Q into ♠2, so that he opens 1♦ .

Sir,
TOO EASY or is it? Well, depends upon your armoury of system and Gadgets.So many ways. ( mikeh has already given one line). Personally, I shall never open 1NT with the EAST hand with TWO suits wide open.Thanks.

We would be OK from E because we would start with 1♦(4+) as we play a weak NT.

1♦-1♥
1N(15-bad 19)-2♣(Crowhurst style)
2♥(15-16, 3♥)-4♣(voidwood)
4N(2 without, we play the normal KC responses but with 4♥ saying my hand is nowhere near 15-16 opposite a club void)-5♣
5♦(K)-6♣ (this implies no interest in A♣, and probably less interest in K♠ than 5N)
6♦(Q)-7♦

Even if partner only has 4 diamonds, if they behave, you only need 2 club ruffs to count 13 tricks

My worry about this auction is that partner could have QJx, KJx, AKxx, Qxx or similar where you may struggle to make any slam, and will end up in 6♥ which you almost definitely won't make (6♦ has chances).

mikeh, on 2020-April-10, 21:46, said:

Does it?

What does East respond with ♠Q85 ♥K5 ♦AKQ3 ♣J432?

AL78, on 2020-April-11, 03:39, said:

We respond 2♣

After an east 1NT opening (assuming 15-17, or something close enough that this hand falls within the range) I think west, with 6 losers and an excellent heart suit, is allowed to make a mild slam try. So after 1NT-2D*-2H, west can bid something more than 4H. The choices are between 3D (showing 4+, GF) or 4C (showing shortness). As a small aside, when playing Texas Transfers the direct jump to 4♥ already shows a 'mild slam try', but when looking for a slam it pays to be maximally descriptive. Therefore the other two bids mentioned above should be preferred over the jump, in my opinion. Assuming west bids 3D or 4C, we see that either bid is excellent news to east, with solid diamonds and not a single wasted point in clubs. With some slight optimism, the bidding might go:

1NT - 2♦* (Jacoby)
2♥* (Jacoby) - 3♦
4♦ (forcing) - 5♣ (shortness, implies controls in both majors. Missing both heart and spade control west always signs off, and with only one it is bid to ask for the other)
5♥ (positive, control) - 5♠ (first round control, stronger than 6♦)
6♣ (if you have no clubs I am willing to try 7. Promises solid diamonds, with a weaker suit east can bid 5NT instead) - 7♦


or, alternatively

1NT - 2♦* (Jacoby)
2♥* (Jacoby) - 4♣ (shortness, slam try for hearts)
4♦ (either a control or 'Last Train', depending on your agreements. East intends to bid on if west signs off) - 4♥ (minimum slam try)
4NT (keycards. There is no confusion surrounding the club suit) - 5♠/5NT (two keycards with the queen, or an even number of keycards with any void. Which bid is preferred here is partnership agreement)
6♦ (suggestion to play here, can be converted to 6♥) - ???

I left the last bid open, because I honestly don't know if west can bid 7 here. I guess it depends on how much you trust your partner. They could, but didn't, bid 6♣ to invite for 7♥, so the last bid does strongly suggest solid diamonds. In that case playing the suit with fewer trumps in the hand with the shortness is often worth an extra trick, so if 6♥ makes that suggests 7♦ also does.

Coincidentally, the bidding above also highlights why I personally prefer to show two-suited hands by bidding both, especially when slam is possible. If west had something like a 3=7=3=0 or 3=6=3=1 shape I would be more sympathetic to 4♣, but as it is it is simply too early to tell (after only 2♥) what the right strain is on this deal. Plus it saves almost an entire level of bidding space - if east doesn't support the diamonds, west can show shortness with 4♣ next round (or if east signs off with 4♥ you should listen to your partner and stop bidding).

MinorKid, on 2020-April-10, 20:38, said:

open 1nt.Partner transfers in hearts then bids 4 clubs.you bid 4 diamonds.p 4 spades and you bid 6 hearts.

srdas, on 2020-April-11, 05:14, said:

Sir, you have overlooked that West will open the bidding 1H.? And East shall very conveniently open 1NT.You assume that opponents with 10 carder clubs AND 8 Spades will have balanced hands between them and just keep quiet. Perhaps, it is also TOO easy to miss the very good contract of 7D.Is not life on the table easy when one knows both hands?

Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-11, 03:05, said:

Sir,beg your pardon but only one club ruff is enough as 1S+6D+6H =13. And if diamonds break 4-0 one is free to curse one's bad luck.And as you correctly pointed perhaps no slam may make but its all too easy when one sees all 26 cards.Thanks.

Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-11, 03:54, said:

Why does responding 2♦ promise at least five but 2♣ only needs four? What is the advantage?

Living in predominantly Acol country, I have never heard of this style of bidding before. Everyone I know responds 2 minor on four or more, and 2♥ promises at least five.

I doubt I would find 7♦, but it occurred to me if West openes, 1♥, East fit-jumps with 3♦, then 4♦ - 4♥, 5♣, then cue bid up to 6♥. West would need to judge that in the diamond slam, ruffing clubs gains a couple of tricks, which could convince them to bid 7♦. I'd never find it, at least not with any of my regular partners.

AL78, on 2020-April-11, 07:58, said:

In 2/1, the 2 clubs response is artificial, and can sometimes be made on as few as three (in some partnerships two!) clubs. It's quite standard to require a five card suit for 2♦ and 2♥. The idea is that it is often advantageous to first establish that we are going to game, and to describe the shape of our hand afterwards. Making such a GF bid also allows partner to describe their shape freely, regardless of strength. In a 2/1 system, holding for example KQxx AKxx Ax Qxx opposite partner's 1♠ opening the first bid would be 2♣, intending to support the spades on the second round and starting slam investigations possibly as low as at the 2♠ level. Depending on your agreements on what a direct 2NT and 3NT overcall mean, you also have to bid 2♣ with weaker hands (replace the K and/or Q of spades with a small one, and most players have some special bid for this. But if you lack one, it's 2♣ again).

This also protects partner if we do bid 2♦/2♥, since they can now support with a 3-card suit. It is quite standard to play a repeat of 2M by opener as a 'garbage' bid, 2NT as extra values and any new suit as a real suit with a shapely hand (but not necessarily showing extra values). This gives responder a very clear picture of opener's hand, often below 2NT. This has all kinds of advantages, for example when looking for minor suit slams, right-siding 3NT or deciding on 3NT versus 4M in a 7-card 'fit'.

Also I think if west gets to open the bidding the sequence suggested by mikeh earlier sounds completely correct. 1♥-2♦-3♦-3♥-5♣, which is either Exclusion Blackwood (and the partnership proceeds scientifically after this, but reaching 7♦ is very realistic after this fantastic start) or a general invite for slam in either red suit with a void in clubs. Again as an aside: I find it very useful to play 'Serious NT' in sequences like this, where it is beyond silly to suddenly bid 3NT in light of the known double fit and general values. Therefore 3NT is available to mean "extra values, but no clear bid", and any new suit can mean shortness, instead of just control. With my regular partner 4♣ would already mean at most one club, so the jump to five is a void even when not playing Exclusion. But even without ace-asking bids I think after this clear start the partnership should be able to reach 7♦, as mikeh did.

Cyberyeti, on 2020-April-11, 03:54, said:

Sir,2C is certainly the least confusing and most natural response as you state.There cant be two opinions on this.We were always told that responder responds UP THE LINE.Not to forget some hands where the 2C response may be made even on a 3 card club suit if and when lacking any other available descriptive response and also in the event the responder JUDICIOUSLY chooses to take control of the auction.Thanks.

msjennifer, on 2020-April-11, 07:23, said:

You need 2 club ruffs if partner has AKQx rather than AKQxx to get 6 trump tricks which is what I said in my post

AL78, on 2020-April-11, 07:58, said:

In Acol it's not required, and there is one hand that might bid 2♦ for us with 4 (3343 11 ish, enough for a 2/1 but not enough for immediate 3N, diamonds good clubs bad), we don't play a natural 2N here. Our principle is bidding 4 card suits up the line after the opening bid (where we open 1♦ with 4 and 4 clubs, so 2♣ finds the fit) which goes throughout our system and applies here.

We play fit jumps, but the W hand is not suitable for us as we demand one of ♦AKQ

AL78, on 2020-April-11, 03:39, said:

I mentioned I was assuming 2/1, which is a clue that I was not discussing precision, acol, blue team, schenken, Culbertson etc😊

It is close to universal in expert 2/1 for 2D to promise 5 cards in the suit, with 2C becoming pretty much a catch-all response on 3343 hands, or indeed 3442 hands over a 1S response. You won’t likely see this in bidding texts, since expert practice evolves faster than do bidding books, and bidding books are not written for experts in any event (with rare exceptions).

With your example hand, east responds 2C.

Indeed he would do so with QJx KJx AKQx xxx

The idea is that one adds definition to sequence that begin 1M 2R, at the cost of increased ambiguity in those auctions that begin 1M 2C.

This is similar to the growing expert practice of opening 1C on 4432 hands and the also growing practice of having 1D promise either 5 or a 4441 hand. Indeed in two of my current partnerships, with strong partners, we routinely open balanced hands, 4-2 in the minors, 1C. We are far from alone in this practice.

AL78, on 2020-April-11, 08:05, said:

I don’t know how fit jumps are played in your area, but in NA few, if any, play fit jumps in response to an opening bid in an uncontested auction.

Indeed, fit jumps are competitive bidding tools. The point is to let partner know not only that we have great support (typically 4 cards...KJx would be a distortion) but also a side suit, with little defence in the oypther suits...and relatively few losers as well, since we will have at least 9 cards in our suits. This is designed to help partner know how how to compete.

So a fi5 jump would not be available to any NA expert with whose methods I’m familiar ( which is a lot, but not all)

mikeh, on 2020-April-11, 10:00, said:

Pretty common here to play SJS with either a single suited rock crusher OR a GF 5+ suit and 4+ trumps. This hand is very borderline for most peoples' version, and not suitable for ours, make the diamonds Qxxx, and we'd jump shift.