Identifying Dummy during Play
#1
Posted 2020-June-06, 07:02
#2
Posted 2020-June-06, 11:21
mickeymzm, on 2020-June-06, 07:02, said:
Well, if you are declarer, your name will be under your cards. The dummy will have your partner’s name.
#3
Posted 2020-June-07, 09:35
mickeymzm, on 2020-June-06, 07:02, said:
The simplest way to identify the dummy is the opening leader appears on your right hand when you are dummy/
When you are a defender.dummy's hand is the only one visible.
In a real time game dummy can only see his own cards whereas on here declarers hand is also
visible to him which kinda spoils the fun somewhat
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
#4
Posted 2020-June-07, 10:28
Perhaps changing the background to red and changing the person's name to DUMMY would help our new players. They have been very intimidated with all this new technology.
#5
Posted 2020-June-07, 11:19
I would agree, in that case it would be nice to know which hand the defenders can see.
#6
Posted 2020-June-07, 13:15
mycroft, on 2020-June-07, 11:19, said:
I would agree, in that case it would be nice to know which hand the defenders can see.
It's not just a problem with robots and it's not just a problem for the destined dummy who suddenly finds himself declarer, and it's not just a problem for absolute beginners either, especially if you play trigger happy automatic tournaments.
It should be crystal clear which hand is dummy, to all four players.
As it should be crystal clear to declarer that he is declarer and must play from the dummy.
As it should be crystal clear to dummy that he is dummy and must not do anything, let alone play.
The current interface guarantees none of this.
A big step forwards however is using 'hand diagram' mode where the dummy is at least shaded in grey.
Unfortunately the older 'pictures of cards' mode is the default and does not shade the dummy (unless they fixed it recently).
#7
Posted 2020-June-07, 14:31
In these contests the human player is partnered by a robot. If the robot becomes declarer,the human must play the hand
and this always means doing so from a "reversed" (upside down) viewpoint. I've often found this challenging and I'm an advanced player so I can
only imagine what it must be like for an beginner or an intermediate.
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
#8
Posted 2020-June-08, 02:04
#9
Posted 2020-June-08, 04:25
#10
Posted 2020-June-08, 05:03
Also the contract and declarer are listed at the top of the screen.
Someone suggested making dummy’s cards appear grey. This would be nightmareish, and on a par with all the defects in functionality, security, playability and compliance with the Laws of Bridge. In fact it would be near the top of the list, as it would impair so many people’s enjoyment of playing on BBO.
#11
Posted 2020-June-08, 11:13
You may not play with robots, or best hand, or anything else that does "human declares", but it's very popular here (and in fact has national championships run - yeah, I'm as boggled as you are about that, but it's happened).
#12
Posted 2020-June-08, 13:30
Vampyr, on 2020-June-08, 05:03, said:
And you find that intuitive?
Even if the hand at the bottom has your name and a glaring yellow highlight which usually means you play now or get kicked out?
If I saw my cards laid out on the table and nothing glaring for me I would be a heck of lot more comfortable.
Vampyr, on 2020-June-08, 05:03, said:
Someone with a nickname, like you. You will also be alarmed to know that this nightmare has actually been realised in the pictures of cards view which is used and preferred by many if not most players on BBO, including stalwarts like barmar and paulg.
#13
Posted 2020-June-08, 13:34
mycroft, on 2020-June-08, 11:13, said:
You may not play with robots, or best hand, or anything else that does "human declares", but it's very popular here (and in fact has national championships run - yeah, I'm as boggled as you are about that, but it's happened).
Are these events played with three robots? Are the robots able to make use of the information in the exposed hand? If so, then the hand should be rotated so that declarer’s hand is at the bottom. If this is possible.
#14
Posted 2020-June-08, 13:50
You can remember "you're" dummy. It's *really really hard* to remember that it was "your" RHO that bid diamonds, because during the auction it was your LHO. This way (your hand stays at the bottom) keeps the auction oriented in your head properly.
#15
Posted 2020-June-08, 13:59
pescetom, on 2020-June-07, 13:15, said:
It should be crystal clear which hand is dummy, to all four players.
As it should be crystal clear to declarer that he is declarer and must play from the dummy.
As it should be crystal clear to dummy that he is dummy and must not do anything, let alone play.
The current interface guarantees none of this.
And it's not just the situations that Tom mentions. It is also confusing when you are kibitzing a table and you join the play after the opening lead has been made. Yes, it's perfectly easy to look at the contract, see that "West" (or whoever) is declarer, etc. etc. But that's no reason not to mark the dummy in some clear manner. Why make life more difficult than it needs to be?
#16
Posted 2020-June-08, 14:21
mycroft, on 2020-June-08, 13:50, said:
You can remember "you're" dummy. It's *really really hard* to remember that it was "your" RHO that bid diamonds, because during the auction it was your LHO. This way (your hand stays at the bottom) keeps the auction oriented in your head properly.
Oh yes, I see now. Of course you can always pull up the auction; that might solve the problem or might not. I don’t know, having never faced the situation.The suggested solution of making dummy’s cards grey may be suitable for people who play with robots, but would have a very negative effect on the rest of us..
#17
Posted 2020-June-08, 14:25
beowulf, on 2020-June-08, 13:59, said:
Because looking at the contract, which is always displayed, is difficult? I wonder if “marking the dummy” is a solution looking for a problem.
#18
Posted 2020-June-08, 14:43
Law 41(D) specifies
Quote
his hand in front of him on the table, face up,
sorted into suits, the cards in order of rank with
lowest ranking cards towards declarer, and in
separate columns pointing lengthwise towards
declarer. Trumps are placed to dummy’s right.
Declarer plays both his hand and that of dummy.
The original BBO Windows client managed to do this about 20 years ago. For whatever reasons, the Flash version reverted to showing dummy just like any other hand, and the current HTML5 version copies the Flash version.
#19
Posted 2020-June-08, 14:47
King_of_D, on 2020-June-08, 02:04, said:
Guess you've forgotten what it's like to be a beginner. But I imagine that when you were a beginner, you probably didn't have to learn during a pandemic where the only games were online.
Or, maybe you'd just prefer to scare off all of those pesky newcomers and have the game die out completely in 10 years.
#20
Posted 2020-June-08, 15:03
beowulf, on 2020-June-08, 14:47, said:
Or, maybe you'd just prefer to scare off all of those pesky newcomers and have the game die out completely in 10 years.
Will beginners care which is the exposed hand?.