[david_c]

I'm not very good at signalling. I can just about stretch to working out what card to play on partner's lead. But later in the play I get preoccupied with other things, and generally I can't think of anything interesting to tell partner anyway. A typical thought process is something along these lines:

"I think I have to throw a spade here: anything else could be a disaster. So I'll play the ♠3 ... no, wait a minute, we're playing Lavinthal, so that would ask for a club, wouldn't it? I do have the ♣K, but should I really be signalling that I have it? I'm not sure I actually want partner to play clubs, and besides, I don't want declarer to know what I've got. So maybe I should play a higher spade instead - I think partner already knows I can't have much interest in hearts. Ugh, no, I don't like this at all, maybe I should play a club, at least that gets the signalling right ... "

Now if I was actually a competent defender I would know what to do in this sort of situation. But that's not going to be the case any time soon. So what I'd really like is a system of signals/discards which is suited to my temperament. The key feature required is this:

Playing your lowest card in a suit says, "Partner, there's nothing in particular I want to tell you."

That means, if you do want to send a message, you have to play a high card. The meaning of a high card (or high-low signal) is allowed to be reasonably complicated, as long as it's well defined.

Example of a signal which is good in this respect: Smith Peters - a high card saying, "I really like the suit you led partner", whereas a low card says, "er, what happened at trick one? I've forgotten."

So, is there a method that works this way? Here is one suggestion: when discarding,

high card = "I much prefer one of the other suits to this one. (If there are two possible other suits, I think you can work out which one I like.)"
low card = "I don't want to keep this card."
low card, followed by a high card in the same suit = "I really like this suit but I couldn't afford to discard any other suit in order to tell you that."

Any good? Can you do better?

[Walddk]

david_c, on Nov 25 2005, 02:38 PM, said:

Can you do better?

Yes! First discard: give count in a suit you do not want and trust your intelligent partner to figure out what you (may) want. Occasionally you don't want anything!

Roland

[david_c]

Sorry Roland, count is too complicated

Seriously, this is the problem: I tend to throw small cards at random and would therefore like a method where playing small cards carries no meaning. Yes I know it would be better if I could just concentrate, but I can't. Besides, if you're my partner, it's no good giving me count in an unremarkable side-suit, because there's no way I'm going to be able to count the hand out.

If as you suggest there is no suit I want to signal for, then I have no problem: I just throw a boring small card, which carries exactly that meaning. The question is, what should a high card mean?

[Trinidad]

How about:

Low card: Play as you like, I'm sleeping.
High card: Lead this suit!

(They say this method of signaling has been around since the days of whist.)

If you want to make it slightly more complicated:
Low card: Play as you like, I'm sleeping.
High card: Lead the next higher suit (with clubs higher than spades)!

Rik

[Al_U_Card]

Like the song says, "Every picture tells a story." so you just have to decide what you want to be able to say. Obviously if you want your discards to be meaningless then conventional wisdom says that you are wasting valuable opportunities. If there are no opportunities then you should be saving your brainpower for other things. (Aren't you glad that you can't renege online, I know I am.....lol)

Perhaps easiest to deal with is attitude. (reverse it to save your good cards so a low card says I like this suit.)

Next is suit preference. A high card says go to the higher side suit, a low to the lower side suit.

Count is probably too much work so why not have your first pitch be u/d attitude and every other discard is suit preference?

[helene_t]

I'm in the same boat as David and I like Trinidad's suggestion.

Actually, Ron Klinger, in his "Improve your bridge memory", mentions the advantage of playing high=encouraging: since you would normally play a low card when you can't win the trick, a high card draws more attention.

[joker_gib]

Bridge is not a game for lazy people ! LOL

[EricK]

Play that any discard in a suit (except an obviously high card) says you do not like that suit.

A. It is simple
B. It allows you to discard from your low cards at random (which is theoretically best, I think)
C. It only loses out to suit preference signals if you only have the chance to make one discard
D. It can allow you to show no preference between the two other suits by discarding twice from the same suit.

Eric

[Al_U_Card]

The BEST method I have seen is "Switch in time". A hi card at trick 1 says you like the lead and you DO NOT WANT partner to switch to the weaker side suit in dummy. If you play a low card it says that you are not crazy about the lead but that you WOULD welcome a switch to the weaker side suit in dummy.

Even tho this method has been polished up a lot, in its basic form, this single message does more to exchange info better and faster than any other I have tried.

[FrancesHinden]

Welcome to the concept of 'standard' signals.
A high card says you like the suit.
A low card says you're just throwing a card at random.

[mikeh]

Al_U_Card, on Nov 25 2005, 03:27 PM, said:

The BEST method I have seen is "Switch in time".  A hi card at trick 1 says you like the lead and you DO NOT WANT partner to switch to the weaker side suit in dummy.  If you play a low card it says that you are not crazy about the lead but that you WOULD welcome a switch to the weaker side suit in dummy.

Even tho this method has been polished up a lot, in its basic form, this single message does more to exchange info better and faster than any other I have tried.

I like obvious switch, but it is hardly suited for lazy players:)))

I think that for truly lazy players, a slow card shows that you were thinking and thus is either encouraging, discouraging, or count according to your preferred 'when thinking' methods, while a quick card shows that you were not thinking at all.

This seems intuitively easier than upside-down tempo signals, but you may inadvertently send the wrong signal when you hesitate not because you were thinking but because you were sleeping.












BTW, I hope that nobody thinks I am serious

[Robert]

Hello everyone

A slow signal 'cancels' the meaning of the spot card when played by some players.

Some players using 'upside down' signals use that method 'unless' they do not have the 'right' size card. They now play a card to the trick very slowly and with much pain.

Playing standard carding, if they hold 987 and want a switch, they play a very slow '7' while their face is showing signs of pure agony.

In a somewhat more relaxed game, they simply smile and nod approvingly when partner leads the right suit. Their partner would be foolish to take any 'negative' meaning from 'a' 2 played in this manner.

Regards,
Robert

[david_c]

FrancesHinden, on Nov 25 2005, 10:52 PM, said:

Welcome to the concept of 'standard' signals.
A high card says you like the suit.
A low card says you're just throwing a card at random.

Yeah, OK. This is what I do at the moment, unless partner wants to play something different. It's just that I've been wondering whether there is a more efficient meaning for the high card signal.

[bearmum]

Trinidad, on Nov 26 2005, 03:07 AM, said:

How about:

Low card: Play as you like, I'm sleeping.
High card: Lead this suit!

(They say this method of signaling has been around since the days of whist.)

If you want to make it slightly more complicated:
Low card: Play as you like, I'm sleeping.
High card: Lead the next higher suit (with clubs higher than spades)!

Rik

LOL

My husband (and regular partner for about 40 years) and I play COUNT if opps lead and standard (HI enc) when WE lead -- combined with revolving discards (for FIRST discard ) and IF really obvious-- suit preference leads ( ie when U KNOW p is going to trump and you NEED him to lead a particular suit)

SOMETIMES this is of no benefit but a lot of times it gives the edge in normal comps ( to about Regional level USA )

But I really think that regular partnerships need an agreement (whatever it is ) because the difference between "whatever grade" and "above whatever grade" is the quality of defence -- and DEFENCE depends in some degree on signalling

[realgold]

What is wrong with low to encourage, as you want to keep your high cards, and a higher card to discourage. or even odds and evens.

[Winstonm]

mikeh, on Nov 25 2005, 04:57 PM, said:

Al_U_Card, on Nov 25 2005, 03:27 PM, said:

The BEST method I have seen is "Switch in time".  A hi card at trick 1 says you like the lead and you DO NOT WANT partner to switch to the weaker side suit in dummy.  If you play a low card it says that you are not crazy about the lead but that you WOULD welcome a switch to the weaker side suit in dummy.

Even tho this method has been polished up a lot, in its basic form, this single message does more to exchange info better and faster than any other I have tried.

I like obvious switch, but it is hardly suited for lazy players:)))

I think that for truly lazy players, a slow card shows that you were thinking and thus is either encouraging, discouraging, or count according to your preferred 'when thinking' methods, while a quick card shows that you were not thinking at all.

This seems intuitively easier than upside-down tempo signals, but you may inadvertently send the wrong signal when you hesitate not because you were thinking but because you were sleeping.












BTW, I hope that nobody thinks I am serious

Mike, you forgot the double-clutch signal, the feign disinterst signal, and my favorite of them all the card corner snapping come on signal.

Winston

[Al_U_Card]

mikeh, on Nov 25 2005, 04:57 PM, said:

I think that for truly lazy players, a slow card shows that you were thinking and thus is either encouraging, discouraging, or count according to your preferred 'when thinking' methods, while a quick card shows that you were not thinking at all.

This seems intuitively easier than upside-down tempo signals, but you may inadvertently send the wrong signal when you hesitate not because you were thinking but because you were sleeping.












BTW, I hope that nobody thinks I am serious

So, sort of, "table presence" signals? Like in the good old days when a discard flipped out on the table meant nothing but a card played with an impressive flourish meant you like the suit?

I think that we have a way to go re: user interfaces (note to Fred and Uday, pls DO NOT work on THIS project.... ) and latency issues before this becomes a serious threat to online play, but I do like the cut of your jib.......semaphorically speaking of course....lol

[Al_U_Card]

Guess we have all played in the "ethically challenged club" at some time...

[pigpenz]

on leads i play attitude,the present count, suit preference.Then if possible play small card and hopefully 2 small equal a positve the remaining suit.

What is more interesting is what to plaly in the middle of defense, is it more important to give count on leads small or attitude etc.