[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     -     -     Pass
 Pass  Pass  1♦    Pass
 1♠    Pass  Pass  2♥
 3♣    Pass  3♠    Pass
 Pass  Pass  

Would you open this in 4th seat also would you open it in 3 rd seat

What do you think of it as an opener?

me and a reg p we discussing its merits

does this really conform to the rule of 15

[jdeegan]

Whether to open these sort of hands, I think, should be based on purely tactical considerations. Probably, the best situation to open the East hand for 1♦ would be third seat NVUL early in a match against moderate opposition (it is a perfect Kamikazi 1 NT opener first or second seat). Third seat Vul would be nearly as good. You are hoping to scramble the opponents' information exchange if it turns out to be their hand.

Fourth seat is a different story altogether. You already know it isn't their hand, but it may not be yours either. By opening, you are, in effect, extending the match by one board. Do you want to do that? Do you need to do that? If so, then ask yourself to what degree do you have an advantage?

Well, here your hand here is slightly better than average, and it has spades. This is a slim edge, but an edge nonetheless. On the actual hand, it looks like both sides can make eight tricks in their best suit. Any defensive slip allows nine tricks. If you open 1♦, the most likely outcome is +110 and 3 IMPs for your side.

The hidden downside of bidding like this is that it makes life a bit dicier for partner whose life would be easier if he knew that pard's fourth seat openers were never sub-minimum. You may miss a close game once in a while.

[sceptic]

Quote

would open in 4th seat. Your partner should have Xed 2H

sigh that was me

[Double !]

It's interesting how much many systems have to implement various safeguards to account for light 3rd (and 4th) seat openers. To a degree, this might be a function of playing strong NT openers. I learned to play (if I may be so presumptious) by reading Kaplan and Sheinwold's book on the K-S system. One of the intents of the system was to actually attempt to keep 1-level bids pretty much up to strength (so partner wouldn't need to worry about partner opening light), and to shade weak 2-bids in 3rd & 4th seat (mostly 3rd seat with the understanding that P better have a good reason for bidding over a 3rd (or 4th) seat wk 2. After all these years (and after so many tears) I still believe that there is merit in this approach. IT helps tomaintain the basic integrity of the system without needing to resort to various checks and balances.

DHL

[benlessard]

3♣ what kind of bid is this ??

partner by passing 1s show a very minimum opening that should obey the rule of 15 or close to it and spades tol (3s for me but ive seen decent players pass with only 2 non-sense IMHO) so forget about game forget about playing in clubs. The contracts possibles on that deal is 2♥, 2♠ and rarely 2♥X or 3M

So 3♣ is an complete non-sense.


Pass is clear cut bid.

After passing even kibbitzer in the other room will know you have 4s close to 10 pts and no stiff heart. Each time it goes


---n----e----s----w
pass-pass-pass-1Y
pass---1Z-pass- PASS


east rate to have his 9-10 pts.

So for west to X he need reason to believe 2♥X is a possible contract and for me it showed

a good 10 pts

3H or rarely 4 with 5 bad spades

reason to believe the ♥ are badly placed for declarer KJT or AQ9 or AJT

no spades lenght. West hand is far from a X



Of course its possible that the pts are split 11-6-11-12 and its their hand. But its a law of total trick decision anyway.


so pass and if your partner have stiff h or a 4th ♠ he will bid 2s.

Rarely he might also X with a maximum and 4 good ♥.


There is no competive X when both player have limited their hand and found a fit.

[Mr. Dodgy]

I open any 11-point hand in 4th seat unless really bad 11 (4-3-3-3'll make me think twice, hard), and this one is OK. Easy 3rd seat opener.

[pbleighton]

I would open this in the 3rd seat. It's not even close.

In the 4rd seat it is very close. I would open this unless we were playing 11-14 or 10-12/13 NT, or opened very light in the suits.

Peter