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Who is "guilty" - 4? To Bid Or Not To Bid?

Poll: Should south bid first round? (23 member(s) have cast votes)

Should south bid first round?

  1. Pass (7 votes [30.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.43%

  2. Double (1 votes [4.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.35%

  3. 3 Hearts (14 votes [60.87%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.87%

  4. 3 Clubs (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. Other (1 votes [4.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.35%

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#1 User is offline   Helmer 

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Posted 2006-February-22, 17:23

Scoring: MP


Bidding:

East  South  West  North

2♠    pass   pass   Dbl
pass 4♥

There were no agreements on anything special over 2♠.

Double from North. Well now you get to know who is who.
North was my partner.
He meant Dbl - as penalty - well how could I know?
You bid stupid partner he wrote.
Well - I think 2 NT in Norths hand is a quite good bid instead of dbl - but if he believe that dbl is penalty in that position - ok.
I took the chance and opponents made one small mistake in defense - and 12 tricks came home - 100% - B)

Should I bid 1st time?
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#2 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2006-February-22, 17:27

Good question, much more interesting then the other ones.

I wouldn't bid the first time around. Most people here play that a jump to 4C shows 5-5 in hearts and clubs but this hand is not good enough imo.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#3 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2006-February-22, 17:30

I think I would overcall 3H with the south hand. The hand with shortness is the one who needs to stretch. You can definitely get overboard, but 2S float is very possible if you pass.

I would bid 2N with the north hand, but I know several players who pass with this hand type at this vulnerability. It is pretty sound, you're probably going to get 200 or more, so if you don't have a game the pass wins. Having a game is less likely given norths lack of trick source. However, I still usually bid with the north hands, I fear the type of disaster that would have happened had north passed on this hand B) 4H was perfectly normal, your pard is playing adjective bridge when he calls his X penalty.
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#4 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2006-February-22, 17:48

I would overcall 3H but then they expect this.

X is only penalty if he hesitated or banged down the red card hard enough that your teeth rattled.
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#5 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2006-February-22, 17:55

This is very close, but I would overcall 3♥. Thank god I am not vul.

Partner's double is NOT penalty. If any bid was 'stupid', it was double.

What would I bid? Probably pass at this vulnerability. I have 18 hcp and I need my partner to have enough to raise me to game if I balance. If I can make 120 or 150, I rate to be 200 or 300 on defence. And if I am only +100 (a make seems most unlikely) then I may be -50 or 100 in 2N. Imps, I balance 2N for sure, since the upside is far greater then the downside (400 or 430 against 200 while I will rarely get doubled even when 2N is fated for -1 or 2).
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#6 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2006-February-22, 17:58

mike777, on Feb 22 2006, 06:48 PM, said:

X is only penalty if he hesitated or banged down the red card hard enough that your teeth rattled.

also if he put the stop card on the table before Xing.
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#7 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2006-February-22, 18:17

I would pass the first round, but North has a ridiculous Dbl (unless it's clear penalty, but who plays this in front of the suit anyway??).
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
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#8 User is offline   joshs 

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Posted 2006-February-22, 19:13

Helmer, on Feb 22 2006, 06:23 PM, said:

Scoring: MP


Bidding:

East  South  West  North

2♠    pass   pass   Dbl
pass 4♥

There were no agreements on anything special over 2♠.

Double from North. Well now you get to know who is who.
North was my partner.
He meant Dbl - as penalty - well how could I know?
You bid stupid partner he wrote.
Well - I think 2 NT in Norths hand is a quite good bid instead of dbl - but if he believe that dbl is penalty in that position - ok.
I took the chance and opponents made one small mistake in defense - and 12 tricks came home - 100% - ;)

Should I bid 1st time?

I would bid 3H (barely). I believe strongly in bidding agressively with singletons in the opponents suit, and to give partner slack when he appears to have shortness in the opps suit.... Switch the diamonds and the spades, and I would pass 2S.
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#9 User is offline   jikl 

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Posted 2006-February-22, 19:35

It is a real double when you draw an axe dripping blood on it first then casually toss it into the centre of the table for all to see ;)

Sean
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#10 User is offline   Miron 

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Posted 2006-February-23, 02:56

Double is take out, never penalty. You need take out more often then punishement.
I think that South should bid, very nice hand, 11HCP 5-5, 6 loosers: 3♥.
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#11 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2006-February-23, 03:31

Very close but OK for 3♥ overcall.

You probably found the only player in this world who plays dbl as penalty in this position ! ;)

Alain
Alain
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#12 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2006-February-23, 03:32

I would suggest never playing with this person again and tell all your friends to also not play with him.
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#13 User is offline   hotShot 

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Posted 2006-February-23, 03:43

Well no one i know, would expect dbl to be penalty here (unless agreed otherwise).
So i can't see, anything wrong here. Bidding 4♥ is ok, if you don't have better methods.
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