[Rain]

What's with the philosophy of tipping in USA? Or rather, whassup with the hidden charges!!!

When you go buy something from walmart, why don't they write the final price! Its not that difficult for the stores to have the final price printed. They know the state taxes and whatever. Just add it in so the user knows exactly what he's going to be charged, instead of a sudden $1.87 charge added when the final bill is presented. Do they expect me to walk around with a calculator and a booklet on taxes?

And tipping. If you grumble about how waitors expect a 20% tip, someone else will bring up the point that they are paid minimum wages but taxed on expected tips. So change this! What's so difficult about paying your waitors real wages. The consumer is being tricked into subsidising an expected cost of business. Its not like menu prices are inexpensive too.

What if you take a "courtesy shuttle" to a hotel or whatever? You're expected to tip too. A cab ride, even with no luggage or any extra service? Tip expected.

Go get a coffee from starbucks. Tip welcome.

What next? Tipping at mcdonalds? What's the difference between starbucks and mcdonalds?

All these are hidden charges!

Big companies like airlines--"fuel surcharge", "911 surcharge", etc. Just add it to your final bill and don't advertise a $150 ticket when your final price is $499!

Telecomm companies--"911 surcharge" "xyz state charge" "xyz telecom tax"
All these are added mysteriously to your final bill. What's with that!

What an atrocious, sneaky way of doing business. And its practised all over USA, so apparently its sanctioned by everyone. Why? Americans belong to one of the wealthiest nations on earth. Lots of Americans are well travelled. What other developed country practises this sort of unreasonable pricing practise? With so much emphasis on consumer rights in USA, why haven't the consumer rights advocates done anything about this?

Annoying!!!

[Badmonster]

Total culture gap. I don't know how to reply because I don't understand why you object to tipping. How do you not tip? I'd feel like my soul was filthy if I didn't leave a sufficient tip.

And I'm glad it's not included in the cost. If it was how could I be sure that the people I intended to tip were really receiving the money?

[csdenmark]

Tips abolished in Denmark more than 20 years ago. - We are not beggars.

[sceptic]

If I tip it is usually because that person did me well, I wont tip if I dont think it is deserved and it should not be assumed you receive tips just for doing your job

[sceptic]

Quote

Tips abolished in Denmark more than 20 years ago. - We are not beggars.

I think that is a harsh outlook on the issue but I doubt you agree with my opinion either LOL

[jillybean]

sorry I said anything

[Badmonster]

csdenmark, on Mar 31 2006, 05:20 PM, said:

Tips abolished in Denmark more than 20 years ago. - We are not beggars.

Wow. That's really rude and dismissive of everyone in the service industry in the untied states. Are you indifferent to the idea that someone might be insulted at being called a beggar or did it not occurr to you that you might hurt someone's feelings?

[han]

Most waiters and waitresses receive extremely low wages in the US. They are almost completely dependent on the goodwill of the customer, a situation not that much unlike a beggar.

The alternative approach more common outside of North America is to treat these people as employers and actually give them honest wages that somewhat reflect their hard work.

A consequence is that you raise the prices on the menu. And when you are at it, you may as well include taxes, and the costumer sees the price that he or she is actually going to spend at the end. A smallish voluntary tip is sometimes left when the service was particularly appreciated.

A different culture, I don't think that the Danish approach is more rude than than the American.

[han]

And I'm glad it's not included in the cost. If it was how could I be sure that the people I intended to tip were really receiving the money?


Well, the wages would be higher, so not only would the waiters receive a higher salary, the Mexican guy who is preparing your meal would too. (unless they'd be illegal immigrants which would still make them vulnerable to extortion, I don't have a solution to that problem).

[csdenmark]

Badmonster, on Apr 1 2006, 12:29 AM, said:

csdenmark, on Mar 31 2006, 05:20 PM, said:

Tips abolished in Denmark more than 20 years ago. - We are not beggars.

Wow. That's really rude and dismissive of everyone in the service industry in the untied states. Are you indifferent to the idea that someone might be insulted at being called a beggar or did it not occurr to you that you might hurt someone's feelings?

No - but thats was in fact the reason. It was stopped by law. Tips were a part of their salary - they were taxed for 10-15%, I dont remember the exact percentage after so many years. They often did not receive the money they were taxed for.

The Labor Unions - strong society power here, at least was by that time, demanded a stop. Tips unworthy for human beings - they work hard as anybody else. They have their expenses too. We have, more had I think, a welfare society. We don't accept to look at poor persons.

All citicens in Denmark have rights for a decent life, education, housing etc. They also have the obligation to contribute their fair share to the best for all.

If somebody in USA feel embarrassed to be named beggar - well - that was what the danes in mid-seventies no longer accepted to be named themselves.

[uday]

Jeez, Csdenmark, I am unsure that such an open degree of hostility will result in anything productive.

[han]

uday, on Mar 31 2006, 06:08 PM, said:

Jeez, Csdenmark, I am unsure that such an open degree of hostility will result in anything productive.

I wouldn't give csdenmark any points for style either, but is he really hostile in this thread?

It seems to me that he is trying to make a point here, namely that people who live in rich countries should receive wages that they can live on. Of course that may offend people who live in rich countries where this is not the case, but is this his fault?

Perhaps I'm biased because I for once agree with him.

[csdenmark]

uday, on Apr 1 2006, 01:08 AM, said:

Jeez, Csdenmark, I am unsure that such an open degree of hostility will result in anything productive.

It is no hostile info. It is a fact. So was the argumentation by that time. I think no company in Denmark today will accept their employees asking for tips.

Thats certainly not the same as tips are prohibited - but tips are not welcome. High and decent salaries are welcome of course, but not tips. That is a part of different ways for societies.

All danes have during last months learned that knowledge and acceptance of equal dignity for all human beings as our way of life is based on is very special - more special than we have ever dreamed of.

[joshs]

I don't understand this. Do you all object to sales commisions? Many people work not at a flat rate but based on the revenue they generate. Some have no base salary. Others have a minimal base salary but then have there income supplemented by commissions. Even in industries where there is a large base salary, people's income is often supplimented by performance based bonuses. right now about 25% of my income is from my end of the year bonus.

The salary structure in the service industry is basically commission based except its not a flat commission - the clients determine if you deserve 15% or 20% or on rare occasion more than that. The client can even leave nothing if the service is truely horrible. The idea of commission is that your income depends on how hard you want to work and how well you do your job. Maybe thats not a socialist ideal, but its certainly not obsurd.

Waters/watresses in good resturants actually make quite a good living and the job requires quite a deal of professionalism.

Yes, people deserve a living wage. But this is more of a problem with McDonalds and Walmart than working as a waiter in a decent resturant.

[uday]

I almost responded in ire to csdenmark, but I'll assume we're being trolled instead.

Two demerits to whoever started this contention

[cherdano]

I really don't understand how people can make a fuss about this. In Germany, I tip 5-10% and would feel weird tipping more. In the US, I tip 15-20% and would feel cheap tipping less. In a bar in England, I would feel odd giving any tip.

[pbleighton]

"Waters/watresses in good resturants actually make quite a good living and the job requires quite a deal of professionalism."

They are the outliers. I read a few years ago that waitress was the lowest-paid job in the U.S.

Peter

[csdenmark]

joshs, on Apr 1 2006, 01:27 AM, said:

I don't understand this. Do you all object to sales commisions? Many people work not at a flat rate but based on the revenue they generate. Some have no base salary. Others have a minimal base salary but then have there income supplemented by commissions. Even in industries where there is a large base salary, people's income is often supplimented by performance based bonuses. right now about 25% of my income is from my end of the year bonus.

The salary structure in the service industry is basically commission based except its not a flat commission - the clients determine if you deserve 15% or 20% or on rare occasion more than that. The client can even leave nothing if the service is truely horrible. The idea of commission is that your income depends on how hard you want to work and how well you do your job. Maybe thats not a socialist ideal, but its certainly not obsurd.

Waters/watresses in good resturants actually make quite a good living and the job requires quite a deal of professionalism.

Yes, people deserve a living wage. But this is more of a problem with McDonalds and Walmart than working as a waiter in a decent resturant.

I don't understand this. Do you all object to sales commisions? Many people work not at a flat rate but based on the revenue they generate. Some have no base salary. Others have a minimal base salary but then have there income supplemented by commissions. Even in industries where there is a large base salary, people's income is often supplimented by performance based bonuses. right now about 25% of my income is from my end of the year bonus.
Accepted in Denmark. It is not tips but according to a contract.

The salary structure in the service industry is basically commission based except its not a flat commission - the clients determine if you deserve 15% or 20% or on rare occasion more than that. The client can even leave nothing if the service is truely horrible. The idea of commission is that your income depends on how hard you want to work and how well you do your job. Maybe thats not a socialist ideal, but its certainly not obsurd.
This you cannot do in Denmark.

[Badmonster]

I worked for eighteen years as a restaurant manager. I did not recieve tips. I made far less money than the waiters and waitresses. I would work 60-74 hours a week and was only paid for fifty. Some of those places promised benefits and vacations but never provided them. And the only thing you could do was work someplace else, but that was the industry. Part of it is greed. Part of it is that something like 90% of all restaurants fail. And most of the staff in the back were exploited illegal aliens who were not making a living wage. And you couldn't just go down the block and get a job there, because they're doing the exact same thing. I like tipping. I like knowing those waiters and waitresses are really getting that money. I don't trust restaurant owners to raise prices and give waiters a living wage, because I believe they'll raise prices and hire illegal workers and not pay them what they should.

[csdenmark]

I don't trust restaurant owners to raise prices and give waiters a living wage, because I believe they'll raise prices and hire illegal workers and not pay them what they should
Until recently such was no problem in western Europe. But it is coming on the agenda.

Have you heard about 'the polish plummer'. The imaginare hostilization which defeated the draft for a new set of laws for European Union 1 year ago now. In fact the same problems we now see demonstrations about in France these days. The technical term is 'Service directive'.