[hrothgar]

mike777, on Apr 19 2006, 05:19 PM, said:

I would add if someone does nothing that does not make them innocent or not guilty, there is guilt and responsibilty by omission . If you have evil leaders and do nothing that does not make you "not guilty" . That is why I never quite understood the phrase "innocent civilian" or Innocent standby"

Just to clarify...

How do you feel about the Palestian suicide bombing campaign?

[mike777]

hrothgar, on Apr 20 2006, 07:23 AM, said:

mike777, on Apr 19 2006, 05:19 PM, said:

I would add if someone does nothing that does not make them innocent or not guilty, there is guilt and responsibilty by omission . If you have evil leaders and do nothing that does not make you "not guilty" . That is why I never quite understood the phrase "innocent civilian" or Innocent standby"

Just to clarify...

How do you feel about the Palestian suicide bombing campaign?

Well of course the whole Palestine question is quite a touchy subject.
I do not see the Jewish state as an evil occupying empire and support their right to exist in peace. I do think sending mixed up kids and very young adults who are indoctrinated on 100% suicide missions as evil.

But to take an extreme example I could understand a suicide mission by adults against Hilter or Stalin or Pol Pot.

How do you feel?

[Chamaco]

mike777, on Apr 20 2006, 03:24 PM, said:

I do think sending mixed up kids and very young adults who are indoctrinated on 100% suicide missions as evil.

The point is that most of these kids are not "sent", they are volunteers.

Everytime one country bombs another country- and recently mostly arab countries - we kill thousands of mothers, fathers , brothers and sisters.

We create entire generations of orphans: if I were one of these kids, that has lost parents and brothers from the western countrry bombing, I would have one only goal in my life-> to kill those who destroyed my family, even at the cost of my life.

Yes, if I were one of them I might be a kamikaze against who destroyed my family.
That would be human, and I believe most people would become violent if someone else killed his wife or kids or parents, no matter for what reasons.

My point is: EVERYTIME WE BOMB ONE COUNTRY, NO MATTER FOR WHAT REASON, WE CREATE A GENERATION OF POTENTIAL KAMIKAZE, WHOSE ONLY GOAL IN LIFE WILL BE TO KILL US, BY EVERY MEAN.

HATRED GENERATES HATRED, VIOLENCE GENERATES VIOLENCE.

We cannot complain if kamikaze attacks us with the only means they have (kamikaze attacks) if we have no scruples bombing them, especially when we all know most of the issue revolves around oil and not humanitarian reasons.

[pbleighton]

"We cannot complain if kamikaze attacks us with the only means they have (kamikaze attacks) if we have no scruples bombing them, especially when we all know most of the issue revolves around oil and not humanitarian reasons."

Chamaco, you obviously underestimate the power of denial.

Peter

[Chamaco]

pbleighton, on Apr 20 2006, 03:42 PM, said:

"We cannot complain if kamikaze attacks us with the only means they have (kamikaze attacks) if we have no scruples bombing them, especially when we all know most of the issue revolves around oil and not humanitarian reasons."

Chamaco, you obviously underestimate the power of denial.

Peter

I do not understand which denial you are referring here

If you mean that we can indeed complain because of the violent reaction to our violence, fine, we can, but that would be rather paradoxical:
the situation would be like a boxer complaining because the other boxer refuses to stand still and be kicked until the KO :-)

And in this battle there are no rules, we cannot say that arabs "play dirty", they use the only ways to react they have: self-sacrifice.

Don't get me wrong, I do not support the use of violence from neither part: I am just stating that everytime we bomb one country we automatically increase the number of future kamikaze who will attempt terrorist attacks against us.

Working for peace without violence is, in my opinion, the way to go.

[Sigi_BC84]

Chamaco, on Apr 20 2006, 04:50 PM, said:

pbleighton, on Apr 20 2006, 03:42 PM, said:

"[...] especially when we all know most of the issue revolves around oil and not humanitarian reasons."

Chamaco, you obviously underestimate the power of denial.

Peter

I do not understand which denial you are referring here

He's referring to the denial of the fact that it's about resources and not humanitarian reasons. Many people and many leaders live in denial about that fact.

--Sigi