[bridgeboy]

Scoring: IMP

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The Bidding was:

South West North East
2C 2H 4C 5C
Pass 5D Pass 5S
Pass 6C Pass 6D
Pass 6H Pass Pass
X Pass Pass 6S
X AP


2C was precision-style.

-300 wasnt a success. Any way to avoid this?

Thanks all!

[Rossoneri]

What was E's 5C bid?

And did W have any way of showing the 2-suiter after the 2C opening?

[the hog]

I guess the 5C bid is meant to agree H, but with 3 rag H it really looks wrong. 4S would be non forcing and the hand is too good for that. This is not easy, but at the table I would have bid 5H asking pd to bid 6 with good Hs. This would be about the first time in my life that I would have put down an 8 card suit as dummy. If pd did bid 6H then i would convert to 6S.

[Rossoneri]

The_Hog, on Feb 25 2007, 01:28 PM, said:

I guess the 5C bid is meant to agree H, but with 3 rag H it really looks wrong.

That's what I thought too, so I was wondering if 5C meant something else different, if not, I would be inclined to blame this bid.

[hotShot]

I would not waste much thought on this result. Sometimes preempts work.
There is just not enogh bidding space left for your side.
Your only chance, would have been if 5♣ would be Exclusion Keycard Blackwood. Otherwise, there is no way to find, that 2 trump suit honors ♥ are missing.

[Fluffy]

5♣ is ok, I would take 5♥ as lack of ♣ control, rectifying later to 5/6♠ can be dangeroues (5♠ can be taken as something different)

If blaming someone I think I blame West, he has a pretty minimum 2♥ overcall when partner is wasting a value in clubs, 5♥ is in my opinion a better bid.

appart from that, I wouldn't be surprised to play exatly the same contract on this deal.

[EricK]

If West has the bright idea of passing 6♦ then North needs to find the unlikely ♥ lead!

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

5C? How about 4S, the bid, which
describes your hand?

And over 5D, you still can bid 5H,
5C did set trumps, and 5S is never
to play.

If East ever started to voice a complaint about
Wests bid in this hand, and hands coming after,
he would be dead.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mikegill]

As a side point that nobody seems to be mentioning...

Is North really going to let the opponents play 4 of a major here? I know he's unfavorable and all, but he does hold 6-card support for his partner's likely 6-card suit, a singleton, and 0 defense. 4♣ really seems like not enough here. Over a 5♣ bid, now you really have no chance at science as East, so you would probably have to just guess 5S or 6S. Personally I would bid 5, and try to take my + - partner is still there and can raise to 6 if he feels his hand warrants it.

Here, I wouldn't bid the hand the way East did. 5C then 5S is ambiguous, and could be taken as a cuebid. Still, E-W got unlucky. Assuming West interpreted the bid correctly, bidding on with his hand seems right to me. He has two aces, and no reason to believe that his partner can't control the first or second round of hearts. East's 6D bid is a bad one. His partner just made a bid he doesn't want to hear - a 6C cuebid. Sure the ♣A could be useful for a pitch, but I think making a further grand try at that point is silly - you're just not going to be able to scientifically determine if it's there, and it might be interpreted as an offer to play (turns out this would be perfect, but that's really lucky). Passing 6H is also a crime - he's still not going to make 6S, but at least he won't be doubled 100% of the time. Solid 8-card suits are not meant to be in dummy.

Personally, I would bid either 4S or 5S with the East hand. I don't see why 5S shouldn't be a natural slam invitation. 4S does seem a little timid, since you are essentially cold for slam opposite, say, xx Kxxxx AQxx xx. But, it's going to be tough for partner to evaluate his hand. Blasting 6S is not totally unreasonable, either, depending on your overcall style at favorable. It's hard to construct hands where you're not off two cashing tricks and slam isn't good. I think partner should bid slam over 5S with a full-valued overcall with no wastage in clubs. His hand here certainly qualifies for that.

I assign East 100% of the blame for getting doubled in 6S - he might have anyway, but certainly south wouldn't have had an auto-double.
I assign bad luck most of the blame for getting to a down slam. I'll assign the other small bit to East for making an ambiguous bid at the 5-level (on principle)

[Double !]

90% to east for having created a bidding sequence that his/her partner either didn't understand, that hadn't been discussed, and was subject to different interpretations as evidenced by previous posts. When in doubt, try to ensure a plus score.
(I have little trouble with partner's 2H bid: has shape, someone has to take the inititative/ precision 2C opener not the easiest to compete against.)
btw: I know of many who might interpret an immediate jump to 5S as looking for club control. I also know of some who tend to be careful about pushing to slam after the opps have opened with a nonpre-emptive bid.
dhl

[han]

Double !, on Feb 25 2007, 12:53 PM, said:

btw: I know of many who might interpret an immediate jump to 5S as looking for club control.

Didn't your mama tell you not to hang out with the wrong people?

[cherdano]

I think singleton A opposite void is very hard to evaluate correctly, especially when the opponents are bidding to 4♣ only.

[mike777]

4s over 4clubs once again giving up on slam when the opp show an opening hand in first seat.

Will let myself get pushed to 5spades.

[Free]

If west goes to 6NT, north has to find the right lead

[the hog]

Free, on Feb 26 2007, 07:02 PM, said:

If west goes to 6NT, north has to find the right lead 

That shouldn't be to difficult. Ever heard of a Lightener Double?

[Free]

Yes, but it's the only chance you have left...

[paulg]

I think a lot of people overcomplicate the game at times. Perhaps this is due to the bidding forums in the magazines where the experts often appear to be indecisive and make a call that will get them through the next round, rather than take a position.

However this is a simple hand. It is fairly easy to see that East will not be able to bid this hand scientifically and so it is a simple judgement call.

Personally I'd just plonk the 6♠ card on the table and challenge the opposition to beat it. Unfortunate that South has a clear lead but even then has to just whether I am 8320 or 8140, admittedly the latter is unlikely with four small diamonds.

I wouldn't criticise 4♠ either, but other bids seem unlikely to help in the final decision.

Paul

[marcD]

Do not think 4S comes close to describing the east hand when it seems we can have 7S at worst on a red finesse. Strong clubber tend to open 2C on any excuse and I think it is not appropriate to exclude slam just because south opened. I think the practical bid is 6S (i could pass forcing if notrh bids 7C) but have no problem with 5C. I one thing i would not do is suggesting H as trumps !

2H by west is an ugly bid but probably the best of a bad lot; do not think than passing is a long term winning strategy with that kind of hand (even if available 4C to show H+D is a bit too rich for me)

[Rossoneri]

marcD, on Feb 26 2007, 07:11 PM, said:

Strong clubber tend to open 2C on any excuse and I think it is not appropriate to exclude slam just because south opened.

Read the first post...it's precision 2C.