[inquiry]

Since you forced me to bid 3♦ (which would have been my bid, since I promise this type of hand with 3 card heart support), can you tell me if my 3♦ bid promised hearts or not?

[FrancesHinden]

1. 3D. And I don't consider this the death hand (the death hand is stronger)

2. I suppose I would bid 3S. This doesn't particularly show heart support.

3. If partner thinks 3S shows heart support, then I pass. But I think I've just shown doubt about where to play, and partner has said "hearts". In that case I bid on (after all, AQxxx and out has good play for 6H). What I bid on with is a matter for debate, but probably 4S.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

1) 3D
2) 4C, but I am not happy.
The main problem with 3S is, that it may still
be a bid looking for 3NT, 4C is a clear cue
bid agreeing hearts, but depending on your
cue bidding style, it may deny a spade control,
and 4C may show an honor (as it does in my partnership)
3) Pass, unhappy, but 4H is partners weakest action

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pclayton]

1. 3♦; with diamonds this strong, how can I not?

2. 3♠; nice development!

3. This is a bitch. Pard didn't cue the ♦Q (bad) but also the ♣A (good). Pard could have passed 3♦ with ♥Axxxxx and out, so I expect more than that. I've convinced myself that we have safety at the 5 level. Hell; ♥AQJxxx and ♦xx gives me a good play, so I'll key card.

[inquiry]

If forced to rebid 3♦, over 3♥ I would raise to 4♥.

If forced to rebid 3♦, then rebid 3♠, over 4♥, I would pass unless we played wjs over 1♦. If we do play wjs, I would bid 4♠.

[mike777]

inquiry, on Feb 28 2007, 12:23 PM, said:

If forced to rebid 3♦, over 3♥ I would raise to 4♥.

If forced to rebid 3♦, then rebid 3♠, over 4♥, I would pass unless we played wjs over 1♦. If we do play wjs, I would bid 4♠.

ditto.

[pclayton]

Jlall, on Feb 28 2007, 09:23 AM, said:

a ha... we seem to have some disagreement over the meaning of 3S. Some expect partner to cue which would seem to indicate they think it is for sure coming in hearts. Personally I agree with:

Frances said:

I suppose I would bid 3S. This doesn't particularly show heart support.

It could contain heart support but the primary purpose of below 3N cues is generally to get to 3N (ie AKx x AKxxxxx xx).

This difference changes the meaning of partners 4H call dramatically.

Fair enough. However, if 3♠ is a NT probe, and pard rebids 4♥, then pard must have a great heart suit, and a further move is indicated.

How do you play 1 minor - 4 major? Is it 7 good hearts and out? This would limit pard's hand, but 6 good hearts gives us a good play.

I think 3♠ is "either-or"; if we pull 3N we guarantee heart support.

[Apollo81]

FrancesHinden, on Feb 28 2007, 01:05 PM, said:

1. 3D. And I don't consider this the death hand (the death hand is stronger)

2. I suppose I would bid 3S. This doesn't particularly show heart support.

3. If partner thinks 3S shows heart support, then I pass. But I think I've just shown doubt about where to play, and partner has said "hearts". In that case I bid on (after all, AQxxx and out has good play for 6H). What I bid on with is a matter for debate, but probably 4S.

I agree entirely with this post.

[cherdano]

It's my lucky day, you force me to make all the bids I meant to bid anyway. I agree with Frances on the meaning of 3♠/4♥. Over 4♥, I would make a slam try, not force to slam. It's not quite clear to me what is best. I would love to bid 5♥-patterning-out, but that rather asks for a club control I think. So I would cue 5♣ and leave it to partner.

[mikeh]

1. 3♦... frankly, this is trivial, but I appreciate this is merely setting the stage for the real issues

2. I really don't know. 3♠ looks obvious, and I entirely agree that it says nothing about ♥s. How can it? Give us AQx xx AKQJxx xx and we bid what???

Since I love ♥s and want to tell partner, I think that 4♣ is a reasonable alternative: partner can bid 4♦ LTTC over which I will cue ♠s (for me, via 4N since I use 4♠ as keycard in ♥ auctions) and I will respect 4♥. Imperfect, in that partner may legitimately have the nature of my black suit controls reversed, but at least I get the ♥ message across.

3. If I did bid 3♠, and I might well have done at the table, then we have to resolve the question of the meaning of 4♥, beyond the obvious one that he has a long suit. What would 4♥ have meant on the previous round? We have to be able to draw an inference from what he did not bid earlier as well as what he bid now. I am unclear: if he had a near-self-sufficient suit with slam interest, should he bid 3♠ and then 4♥? Or should he have jumped to 4♥? And if he had a hand that would have respected 3N but is endplayed over 3♠ for want of a ♣ stopper or ♦ tolerance, would he bid 4♥ now?

I am going to decide that his slow route to 4♥ is forward-going... and I take comfort in the fact that, even if he didn't mean it that way, many lesser hands still warrant slam.

But I am not bidding 4♠. I think that denies a stiff club... I have cued ♠s and if I now cue ♣s I cannot logically be showing high card controls in both blacks, since my first obligation over 3♥ was, if I couldn't raise, to bid 3N. And I cannot have good ♦s, a high ♥ honour and high black controls. So I choose 5♣.

4♠ might work well if partner can keycard over it, but that requires that he have a ♣ control himself... and if he does, we're getting to the right spot anyway (I think).

[whereagles]

1. 3♦. Seems normal.

2. I'd bid 4♥, though with a feeling of underbid. If pard would understand 4♣ as hearts + control, I'd obviously try that.

3. 4NT RKCB now. Slam should have a play if the keys are there.

[Fluffy]

I have a rule, when you rebid a major opposite an unbalanced, it becomes trumps unless partner bids NT next.

then 3 spades is a cue.

Even then 3 hearts is GF, I'll try 4NT

[whereagles]

Indeed. Resp must have pretty good hearts, making slam good, in light of the elegant opener hand.

edit: geez.. my english is decrepifying.. lol

[Winstonm]

Quote

Part 2: 3S also seems like the normal bid, but he had the thought later (which others have had here) that maybe he should bid 4C

I agree wholeheartedly - there is NEVER a bad time to trot out GERBER.

[jchiu]

The way it was phrased, it somewhat felt like the cliche

1. What bovine animal lives on the farm?
2. What do cows drink?

I immediately responded with 3♦, 3♠, and pass. Then I read the question again and said "wait, I never supported hearts". I think the only thing I'm interested in is the quality of his heart suit. If I have it agreed that 5♥ invites slam when partner holds two of the top three honors, I'll try that. Otherwise, I'll choose the low-scoring bidding poll option of 4NT.