[MickyB]

Scoring: IMP

3♥ on your right.

Hidden text, for once you've decided your call - If you pass,

Spoiler

LHO bids 4H, passed back to you.

---

[pbleighton]

4C, with pass a very close second.

Peter

[mikeh]

What follows, visibly, is what I wrote before I looked, then in hidden text is what I do later.

I won't bid 4♣: I need far more, from partner, to make game (or slam) than he will need to put me there, so bidding 4♣ has several ways to lose and few ways to win. Plus, if he passes, I am aiming for +130 when I probably have +100 in the bank by passing.

I won't double: I cannot handle any number of ♠s.

I won't bid 3N, despite its attractiveness: I'd need Qx to do that: Jx isn't enough

So I'm left with the pusillanimous pass.

Spoiler

Now I really want to come to the party. My suspicion is that LHO has some shape..probably good ♠s and a short minor, since I have a lot of controls for him to be bidding on power. If I'm right, and we have a 9 card fit, then we rate to be no more than 500-800, and we could be doing far better. But, I have a lot of defence, still, and my delayed auction will make it easy for the opps to do the right thing. At the table, I'm sure I'd pass. So to stay honest, I'll pass again, but I'm not happy... of course, if I bid, I wouldn't be happy either.

[pclayton]

I can't pass this in my world. Double is a little weird, and so is 4N. So I'll try 4♣ which feels like a down-the-middle action.

[hrothgar]

I'm torn between pass and 3NT...

I would (probably) bid 3N

[P_Marlowe]

Pass, since I cant bid a natural 4C, if 4H comes back to
me I will pass again.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[drinbrasil]

I cant pass with 17 in usefull high cards, if i pass partner with 8 will do anything?. Partner have to know i dont promise any perfect distribuition in 3 level doubles, so he can jump to 4S only with 5cards, with 4 and decent hand i expect him to bid 4H and i bid then 5C over this.

[mike777]

MickyB, on Jun 24 2007, 12:31 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

3♥ on your right.

Hidden text, for once you've decided your call - If you pass,

Spoiler

LHO bids 4H, passed back to you.

---

3nt.

[pbleighton]

Have I misread the vulnerability? The opps are unfavorable, and they open 3H, you have Jx in hearts, and a couple of posters bid 3N?

And I thought I bid filthy 3NT games...



Peter

[mike777]

pbleighton, on Jun 24 2007, 07:21 PM, said:

Have I misread the vulnerability? The opps are unfavorable, and they open 3H, you have Jx in hearts, and a couple of posters bid 3N?

And I thought I bid filthy 3NT games...



Peter

May be a good sac at fav. or we may be running if lho doubles.

[pbleighton]

Quote

May be a good sac at fav

3NT as a sac.... Mike, you showing some real creativity here.....

Peter

[jdonn]

I really think 4♣ is a nothing bid. There is just so little upside for when it is right compared to when double or 3NT are right. In Meckstroth's Bermuda Bowl book he held Q Ax AKQJx KTxxx and there was a 3♠ opening bid on his right. I will quote

"Does partner hold ♠KJX, when 3NT is right? Does he have long hearts, when double will work best? Does he have a good fit for one of the minors, when 4NT (or Four Spades) is the winning choice?
The one bid that is not in the game is a 4♦ overcall. You must take a position when you are cornered like this, and 3NT, double, and 4NT are the clearest choices."

He ended up bidding 3NT. On the given hand I prefer double. In fact I think it's a pretty clear choice though others are free to disagree. If partner passes you are thrilled. If partner bids 3NT you are thrilled. If partner bids a minor you are thrilled. And if partner bids spades it will sometimes be a disaster, but sometimes be good when he has 5+ spades. There is really just one bad thing that can happen, and a ton of good things. Double for me, although I have no problem with 3NT, which has one big advantage over double that if partner has four spades and hearts stopped we will play in notrump instead of spades. Pass, just too wimpy for me but sometimes will be right. 4♣, no way for the reasons G-D (I mean Meckstroth) states.

[Apollo81]

I'd also double.

[pclayton]

Jlall, on Jun 24 2007, 06:54 PM, said:

I remember rodwell having almost this exact hand on vugraph, he passed.

Interesting hand for a sim. Pass could work really well, but so could 3N.

I'm regretting 4♣ - it does seem like a 'nothing' bid.

I'm not convinced about x, that seems to be asking for trouble. Even if pard has a heart stop and spades; he'll probably prefer spades.

[cherdano]

I admit I would have doubled. If partner jumps to 4♠, I hope he has 5 (with 4 he might bid 4H, choice of games).

[Impact]

late to this but I pass in tempo.

Sure I have the points but too many ways to lose:
a) 3NT requires not just specific Honours but also specific length given that the lead comes through partner AND they opened at unfav (make it Jxx and I am MUCH more likely to find that bid)

double is awful as my Kx in S is insufficient support for partner if he bids S at ANY level

c) 4C is wrong because it should show at least a 6th C at this level, and because whatever he has, he will misevaluate (if he passes 4C we will probably go down, my guess is that if he raises to 5 we will certainly be down and if he tries for slam we would have had a good shot at game - but then that is imagining hands with which I would move in each circumstance if I was advancer).

d) 4NT is crazy because we have too few minor cards and too many losing H.

When you have been there a few times it is easier to pass in tempo.

If it comes back in 4H I still pass - and pay off if they have fixed us.

regards

[Foxx]

Double. On a slightly weaker collection it would be right to pass, but I can't do that when holding 18 points here. According to the Rule of Seven, we rate to have a game. 4♣ is an open road to nowhere. To bid 4♣ over a three-level preempt, you need clubs. Real clubs, not AKxxx. You might reach a making 5♣ but you'll rarely reach a 4♠ or 5♦ game when it is right and you'll never get to 3NT. Speaking of which, bidding 3NT right here takes a far stronger stomach than I've got.

My plan after doubling is to pull partner's 3♠ response to 4♣, which should deny primary support and suggest this distribution. We can get to anywhere, except 3NT when North had hearts stopped and chose to bid 3♠. Worst case scenario is partner jumping to 4♠ with only four spades, but even then, perhaps West will make an authoritative-looking double, as we scramble to 4NT on the run?

[Fluffy]

I'd double, pass 4♥ later if it comes back to me.

[Edmunte1]

a ) I'll pass in tempo over 3♥, game seems unlikely even if partener has the expected 7 hcp
b ) I'll double over 4♥, showing hcp, and denying 4♠. This could be a -5 IMP's affair, but also it could work pretty often