[3for3]

Your hand:

x
Kxxxx
KJ9xx
xx

Start thinking now, you know what is coming from the title....At the table you will only get a second or 2 before UI starts.....

The opponents bid

1S-2C(GF)
2S-3S
4S-5H.....

OK, time is up, do you double? Why or why not?

Danny

[Impact]

No.

Sure I have the HK (probably behind the A), but

-unless partner has a fabulous reason to do otherwise he is going to lead a red suit on this bidding (against a high S contract);

- I do not know whether he should be leading H or D (depends on who has the red Q in all likelihood);

- if , on this bidding they stop in 5S it pretty much marks the D lead - and why should I dissuade him from that?

- if they continue to a slam in S, he knows that I have no clear preference for H - which is accurate.

Sure, we can hypothesise a hand where declarer holds DAQ and we have a black A so that failing to lead a H is deadly, but just as easily we can hypothesise a hand where the D lead will beat the contract.

If my partner is good, he understands these matters - and does not double to hear the sound of his own voice. All things being equal (they rarely are) on this bidding, unless they stop at 5S without my double, he will tend to lead his stronger red suit - and that is what I want AFAIK!

I want my partners to take my lead directing doubles sensibly - and the one thing I don't want to do is divert him from a potentially sensible "natural" lead.

If I didn't hold the Dtop Hon, I WOULD double 5H not just for the H lead but to stop the putative D lead. Actually if I held the DA, I would probably also double 5H as I want that suit led (so I can then cash DA) but realistically that could be wrong if we had 2 top D against their contract!! Still you pays your money and takes your chances.

Hope this methodology helps: it is not a guarantee of success, but more defensible with a good partner than "reflex doubles"

regards

[Free]

I wouldn't dbl, I rather like partner leading ♦...

[Apollo81]

why would you double HEARTS with this hand?

[whereagles]

No dbl. Pard is bound to lead a heart or diamond, both of which suit me fine.

Don't want to confuse him by doubling

[skjaeran]

If partner is about to lead a ♦ there's absolutely no reason to tell him to lead ♥'s. A black suit lead from partner won't happen, so it's clearly best to sit back and await partner's lead without any kind of information from me.

[nige1]

3for3, on Jun 28 2007, 03:08 AM, said:

Your hand:

x
Kxxxx
KJ9xx
xx

Start thinking now, you know what is coming from the title....At the table you will only get a second or 2 before UI starts.....

The opponents bid

1S-2C(GF)
2S-3S
4S-5H.....

OK, time is up, do you double?  Why or why not?

Danny

IMO P = 10, X = 8. I judge the decision to be closer than others do
You may have a slight preference for diamonds; but it's close, especially as dummy seems to have ♥ A. You do prefer a heart to a black suit

Anyway, if you hesitate over 5 ♥ and then pass, perhaps your ethical partner will lead a ♦

[Robert]

hi everyone

I double 5 hearts. I am "looking at a stiff spade" and partner may well have a trump trick. I would like to cash a heart trick 'if' partner happens to hold a trump trick.

Without a heart lead, we may get our trump trick and we might also see the hearts discarded on the solid clubs that the other pair should hold 'if' they bid slam off a trump trick and they also did not hold either red King(which we are looking at!)

What are you going to do 'if' partner tanks on the opening lead? He might even decide to lead a trump from xxx or J10x 'thinking' that you did not double for a heart lead.

If they bid slam 'without' the heart king(you are looking at that card) they are likely looking at very good cllubs. A diamond lead may not get us a trick and when partner wins his trump trick, there might be time to later 'knock out' the heart Ace.

If diamonds are a safe lead, the other pair are overbid when they bid slam or they have solid clubs. I would prefer a heart lead to set up the 'settting trick' and hope that partner either has a natural trump trick or he can ruff in and we can cash our heart trick.

Double and hope that we have two tricks somewhere. If partner does have a trump trick, he should be very happy that you doubled to set up a heart trick on the opening lead.

Regards,
Robert

[3for3]

Thanks for the replies. At the table, I chose pass. In a sense either red suit sets up a trick, as dummy has both red queens, but, in the event, the declarer had a stiff....diamond, so that a heart lead is the winner. In retrospect, I slightly prefer double, since it is possible that declarer does have the AQ of diamonds, whereas you 'know' dummy has the ace of hearts. The only caveat seems to be that partner might also lead a heart if they stop in 5 spades. This would not be what we want, but perhaps we can't beat 5 anyway.

Fortunately, my counterpart got active with this hand, and my teammate had no trouble picking up the queen third of spades in partner's hand. Just another push...


Danny

[mikeh]

I know I am posting after the thread has, in a sense, closed, but I wanted to add my vote to the NO camp.... but one should bear in mind that partner, with equal red suits, may be influenced, as a 'tie-breaker' by the lack of a double.

So on the layout given by Danny, and similar layouts where partner has no meaningful red honour, the lack of the double will usually get a ♦ lead...

And, if they get to slam, we know that the ♦A is behind us and the ♥A in front of us, so we probably DO have a mild preference for the ♥ lead.

But, this is a very slight preference, and presupposes that they reach slam. From our p.o.v., they may be about to stop in 5♠ off the ♦ suit.... give partner the ♦A and nothing in ♥s, and, on the auction to 5♠ sans double, he may well lead the ♦A, since they have announced slammish values with no ♦ control... but if we double 5♥, he may well lead a ♥, and we find that the black suits afford 11 or 12 winners.

Would I think of all this at the table, in the time allowed before UI becomes a factor? I doubt it. But, over the years, I have tried to train myself both to anticipate these issues and, when I haven't been able to do so, to pass in tempo.. this does mean that on occasion I pass and then spend a considerable amount of mental energy trying to telepathically persuade partner to make a lead that my pass suggests I don't want... but my experience is that doubtful lead-directing doubles are of dubious value on balance.

[cherdano]

NOO!

[mikeh]

pressed post twice So ignore this one

[FrancesHinden]

3for3, on Jun 29 2007, 05:43 PM, said:

Fortunately, my counterpart got active with this hand, and my teammate had no trouble picking up the queen third of spades in partner's hand. Just another push...


Danny

After partner's take-out double of 2C on minimal high card values, surely our Qxx would get picked up anyway.

[foo]

Impact gave a wonderful analysis as to why one should not X here

[jtfanclub]

One thing I missed mentioned here is that the X locates the K♥ not just for partner, but for the opponents. It may be that they would bid a 50% 6♠ slam and go down if I pass (if declarer has QJTx of hearts, for example). I don't want to X and warn them out of it.

[Apollo81]

foo, on Jun 29 2007, 02:18 PM, said:

Impact gave a wonderful analysis as to why one should not X here

cherdano's was better

[sathyab]

Doesn't declarer's failure cuebid anything over 3s deny any interest in slam, assuming that they're playing some kind of serious-3nt schemes where a cue-bid below game is non-serious ? All cue-bidding here seems to be taking place ABOVE game level. Any idea what that means ?

[Walddk]

Jlall, on Jun 30 2007, 03:37 PM, said:

He should usually prefer to lead dummies ace imo, of course I almost never X cuebids in these auctions (or any auctions) so my partners don't rely on the first inference as much as perhaps other peoples partners.

Excellent point. Many tend to double cuebids indiscriminately, so if they don't, their partners never know which inferences to draw. Does he have nothing at all, or does he have something in another suit?

Doubling cuebids, and often Stayman, transfers and splinters too, helps the opponents more than us in my opinion. They get two extra steps: pass and redouble. Your partner is hopefully still there and he is also supposed to pay attention to the auction.

Good players come out with good answers more often than not, also without a double. Just look at the Italian stars. They never double cuebids.

Roland