[nige1]

I voted for a diamond; but an argument for leading a spade rather than a diamond is that if partner is ruffing diamonds and you lead a spade, then your diamond holding may still make life hard for declarer. A hand with such a theme appeared in a Mixed Teams match between Britain and Italy in an EEC championship, a millennium or two ago. It was something like...

Scoring: IMP

-- ----- -- (1♠)
_P (3♥) _P (4N)
_P (5♥) _P (6♠)
_P (_P) _X (XX)
AP
3 ♥ = fit jump

---

Against 6 ♠ XX by South, West chose the unfortunate lead of ♥ T

[kenrexford]

nige1, on Jul 3 2007, 03:47 PM, said:

Against 6 ♠ XX by South, West chose the unfortunate lead of ♥ T

The lead of a heart would have been a rather unfortunate lead if partner held J10x of spades and declarer Jxx of hearts.

The lead of the 10 of hearts was rather bizarre.

[Fluffy]

I knew partner was insane

[Codo]

Jlall, on Jul 4 2007, 02:48 PM, said:

BTW partner in this hand was me.

And why did you hide your solid 9 card suit?

You surely had a reason but I miss the imagination to see it.

[Free]

Ok, so you want a ♠ lead. Why do you double? Afraid of partner leading singleton ♥ perhaps? But Dbl is not easy to read as "lead ♠" as well...

[Codo]

Jlall, on Jul 4 2007, 04:42 PM, said:

A 4H overcall obviously is extremely wrong as it shows a good hand not a preempt.

I totally agree that 3 Heart and 5 Heart are no bids. 5 Heart may be an option white/red.

But I am not sure that 4 Heart is still a strong bid. It had been after a preempt, but after they started to force, I had not been sure whether it still is true.
3 Heart shows a good hand with defence, double and later Heart bids are strong too, so maybe 4 Heart should be a statement that I want to play Hearts?

Anyway in each case your pass took away the Heart lead from Pd, so the chance that he finds the right lead increases. Great idea.

So it comes down to the same question as Free allready mentioned;
If you don´t double, pd will lead a major and I see no reason that a heart is more often acctractive for him then a spade. A double will catch some folks to lead a diamond and I guess that even more will lead a diamond at the table then here.

After all, all people belive that in the hands in the forum a weird lead is more often correct then a normal lead.

[Rebound]

FWIW I shied away from posting on this topic earlier because I didn't feel I had much to add, but for the record, I would have lead a spade based on the initial post. Further, while I have successfully demonstrated here that I am no expert (lol) I admit it would never have occurred to me to pass with your hand, J, but I am glad that I can understand your logic in passing and it certainly gives me something to think about should I run into something similar in the future. So, thanks.

[FrancesHinden]

Jlall, on Jul 4 2007, 08:42 AM, said:

3H is misleading and all that will happen is that partner will start doubling. You have 0 defense.

It looks like partner has a lot of spades and didn't overcall. He probably doesnt have very much. I'm 2-2 in their suits. We are red/white. It seems unlikely we will make 5H, and I see no reason to just go for a number when I expect we might well beat 5 or 6C if we get the right lead, and even if we don't beat 5C -400 is a lot better than -800.

The 5H overcall looks suicidal, and I am not so sure it's preemptive (preempt over a preempt red/white?). A 4H overcall obviously is extremely wrong as it shows a good hand not a preempt.

I know if I told you "the auction came to me at 3D and I passed with a 9 card H suit to the KQJT and out" it would sound silly in isolation but I think each hand needs to be judged on it's own merits and not on silly biases like never pass with a 9 card suit. I really don't think there is anything to do but pass over 3C p 3D, but even if you prefer 3H or something I think you are not thinking about the hand veyr much if you think a pass is crazy.

I understand all these points. But I just couldn't bring myself to pass with 9 hearts to 100 honours. Yes, 2-2 in the minors is poor. But a favourable 3C bid and ostensibly forcing 3D bid do not necessarily have to have much in the way of high cards.

I don't entirely buy the "4H is extremely wrong as it shows a good hand not a preempt" argument. What would you bid if RHO had opened 3C? What would you bid if RHO had opened 3S?

(FWIW I would bid 4H, I agree 5H is a) suicidal and not obviously pre-emptive).

[tommac18]

Most likely LHO has ♠x ♥AKQx♦AKxxxx♣Axb
bidding makes sense as bids slam opp pre empt with 1 key
card.Thus lead a small ♦suit pref for ♥on presumed
♦ruff by pard hand gets funny as you can now elope
on ♥retun with♣K

[foo]

As the player who advocated

(3C)-pa-(3D)-5H

with - KQJT9xxxx xx xx,

Allow me to make some comments in its defense to counter those claiming it to be "insane".

1= The auction reveals it is the opponent's hand. Time to Jam Them if we can.

2= Even in the unlikely occurance that They have every other value in the deck, 5♥ is at most -3. If 5♥ is -3, They are cold for a grand. If 5♥ is -2, They are likely cold for a small slam.

3= 3♥ and 4♥ might be construed as constructive by pd. Not so 5♥

4= the "book preempt" holding a 9 card suit is...


So while I can understand the action is not everyone's cup of tea, it is far from insane or random and actually is based on some defensible Bridge thinking.

[Codo]

Sorry foo,

wrong again.

In a normal hand 5 Heart may be an idea.

But here, if they reach slam, you have no way to ask for a spade lead if you bid Hearts now. You may pass later and get a heart lead or double for diamonds.

And: If pd has some slow values- or the opss have no tool to find a good slam, you just trade -400 (or -420) into -800, no good idea either.

Third: If they are not sure what to do, they gladly take their sure 800 and beat anybody who reaches 5 in the minor or 6m-1.

I now belive that 5 Heart is a loose loose option in this particular hand.

[FrancesHinden]

foo, on Jul 6 2007, 12:21 PM, said:

As the player who advocated

(3C)-pa-(3D)-5H

with - KQJT9xxxx xx xx,

Allow me to make some comments in its defense to counter those claiming it to be "insane".

1= The auction reveals it is the opponent's hand.  Time to Jam Them if we can.

This is where we disagree.
The auction does not reveal it is the opponent's hand. You can't just decide that a bid is pre-emptive because you have a hand on which you wish to pre-empt.

A first in NV against V 3C bid might in some schools (e.g. mine) look like
x
xx
xxxx
KJ10xxx

The 3D response might be on something like

xx
xxx
AKxx
xxxx

(what do you want led?)

That leaves us 29-high making at either the 5- or the 6-level depending on the diamond layout. Second seat might be looking at Qxx Axx QJxx Qx and think your 5H bid shows more like AKJx KQJ10xxx x A

In some respects this is like the auction
3S P 4S ? where all you know is that partner has passed, and RHO can have anything from a 0-count with 3 spades to a 20-count with 0 spades.