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3♦ is rubenshol, shows 3+♥ around 7-9(10)
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Wich cue now? show void or a cheaper cue
#1
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Posted 2007-July-04, 10:11
3♦ is rubenshol, shows 3+♥ around 7-9(10)
#2
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Posted 2007-July-04, 10:13
Why isn't keycard an option? 
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
#4
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Posted 2007-July-04, 10:43
cherdano, on Jul 4 2007, 11:13 AM, said:
Why isn't keycard an option?
Because (as is often the case) the answer to keycard may not tell you what to do.
This is one of the very large number of hands on which the crude instrument of keycard is of no real use, while co-operative cue-bidding is.
I agree with Justin: 4♦, and I ain't passing 4♥.
I will make a spade (re)cue next (in my preferred methods, 4N over 4♥ is a spade cue, but if not playing that, then 4♠) If he shoots out 5♦, I will bid 6♥. If he bids 5♣, I will bid 5♥. If he bids 5♥, I will pass.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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Posted 2007-July-04, 11:02
cherdano, on Jul 4 2007, 06:13 PM, said:
Why isn't keycard an option?
In the Adv/Exp forum??
Kind regards,
Harald
Harald
#6
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Posted 2007-July-04, 11:23
mikeh, on Jul 4 2007, 04:43 PM, said:
I will make a spade (re)cue next (in my preferred methods, 4N over 4♥ is a spade cue, but if not playing that, then 4♠) If he shoots out 5♦, I will bid 6♥. If he bids 5♣, I will bid 5♥. If he bids 5♥, I will pass.
What if partner bids 4NT?
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Posted 2007-July-04, 11:24
Old saying: "When your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails."
It costs nothing to be nice -- my better half
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Posted 2007-July-04, 12:21
mikeh, on Jul 4 2007, 11:43 AM, said:
cherdano, on Jul 4 2007, 11:13 AM, said:
Why isn't keycard an option?
Because (as is often the case) the answer to keycard may not tell you what to do.
This is one of the very large number of hands on which the crude instrument of keycard is of no real use, while co-operative cue-bidding is.
I agree with Justin: 4♦, and I ain't passing 4♥.
I will make a spade (re)cue next (in my preferred methods, 4N over 4♥ is a spade cue, but if not playing that, then 4♠) If he shoots out 5♦, I will bid 6♥. If he bids 5♣, I will bid 5♥. If he bids 5♥, I will pass.
Arend was joking. If not then he is fired.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
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Posted 2007-July-04, 15:00
Hannie, on Jul 4 2007, 08:21 PM, said:
mikeh, on Jul 4 2007, 11:43 AM, said:
cherdano, on Jul 4 2007, 11:13 AM, said:
Why isn't keycard an option?
Because (as is often the case) the answer to keycard may not tell you what to do.
This is one of the very large number of hands on which the crude instrument of keycard is of no real use, while co-operative cue-bidding is.
I agree with Justin: 4♦, and I ain't passing 4♥.
I will make a spade (re)cue next (in my preferred methods, 4N over 4♥ is a spade cue, but if not playing that, then 4♠) If he shoots out 5♦, I will bid 6♥. If he bids 5♣, I will bid 5♥. If he bids 5♥, I will pass.
Arend was joking. If not then he is fired.
Of course he was, hence the smiley.
Kind regards,
Harald
Harald
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Posted 2007-July-04, 15:32
Hi,
I think 4S instead of 3S, would have helped
you more, the 4C cue bid may be a forced
cue, and you still have no idea, if partner
has wastage in spades, given that E/W are
green vs. red, even AQ may be possible,
... should he count those points fully sitting
behind the guy?
For that matter, it would have been nice, if
your first cue, showed values.
With kind regards
Marlowe
I think 4S instead of 3S, would have helped
you more, the 4C cue bid may be a forced
cue, and you still have no idea, if partner
has wastage in spades, given that E/W are
green vs. red, even AQ may be possible,
... should he count those points fully sitting
behind the guy?
For that matter, it would have been nice, if
your first cue, showed values.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#11
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Posted 2007-July-04, 15:43
skaeran, on Jul 4 2007, 04:00 PM, said:
Hannie, on Jul 4 2007, 08:21 PM, said:
mikeh, on Jul 4 2007, 11:43 AM, said:
cherdano, on Jul 4 2007, 11:13 AM, said:
Why isn't keycard an option?
Because (as is often the case) the answer to keycard may not tell you what to do.
This is one of the very large number of hands on which the crude instrument of keycard is of no real use, while co-operative cue-bidding is.
I agree with Justin: 4♦, and I ain't passing 4♥.
I will make a spade (re)cue next (in my preferred methods, 4N over 4♥ is a spade cue, but if not playing that, then 4♠) If he shoots out 5♦, I will bid 6♥. If he bids 5♣, I will bid 5♥. If he bids 5♥, I will pass.
Arend was joking. If not then he is fired.
Of course he was, hence the smiley.
I was having a tough day
A very literal day... all my sense of subtlety had been left at home this morning so i aplogize to Arend.....
Thx for pointing out what was obvious to all but me
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#12
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Posted 2007-July-05, 08:29
I'm doing some guessing here.
The 3♦ call is describer in such a way that I suspect that, when Responder has no shortness value in the opponent's suit (seems to be the case here), we have an expectation of about 2 or 3 cards from him. Not four, and not one. Plus, we might have a stray doubleton with four trumps, at the very high end.
Partner cannot have internal cards. Hence, the best holding he could have as to "cards" would seem to be K-KQ in the minors. KQ in both would be too much, I'm guessing. KJ-KQ is also possible, maybe?
So, if partner held four trumps, and something like:
♠xxx ♥Jxxx ♦KQxx ♣Kx
...we seem to make slam most of the time. Four hearts and Kxx in clubs and we still seem to probably make slam. Remove the third heart, and I dislike my chances.
If 3NT by Responder (after 3♠) would have been serious, that "serious" might require three cards, a doubleton, four trumps, and cards inside trumps. He did not and could not have that, so that's no help.
If he has three cards, and non-serious interest, and I keep cuebidding, he should move. I think, therefore, that 4♦ is enough. I'll join those who make that one last stab and leave it up to partner.
The 3♦ call is describer in such a way that I suspect that, when Responder has no shortness value in the opponent's suit (seems to be the case here), we have an expectation of about 2 or 3 cards from him. Not four, and not one. Plus, we might have a stray doubleton with four trumps, at the very high end.
Partner cannot have internal cards. Hence, the best holding he could have as to "cards" would seem to be K-KQ in the minors. KQ in both would be too much, I'm guessing. KJ-KQ is also possible, maybe?
So, if partner held four trumps, and something like:
♠xxx ♥Jxxx ♦KQxx ♣Kx
...we seem to make slam most of the time. Four hearts and Kxx in clubs and we still seem to probably make slam. Remove the third heart, and I dislike my chances.
If 3NT by Responder (after 3♠) would have been serious, that "serious" might require three cards, a doubleton, four trumps, and cards inside trumps. He did not and could not have that, so that's no help.
If he has three cards, and non-serious interest, and I keep cuebidding, he should move. I think, therefore, that 4♦ is enough. I'll join those who make that one last stab and leave it up to partner.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
-P.J. Painter.
-P.J. Painter.
#13
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Posted 2007-July-05, 09:52
4♦. I suppose my next call over 4♥ is 4♠, but 5♥ should show this hand I think.
"Phil" on BBO
#14
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Posted 2007-July-05, 10:07
4♦, wtp
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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Posted 2007-July-05, 12:45
If we were always planning to go to the 5-level, why didn't we bid 4S last round?
(I'm not sure we were always planning the 5-level; if partner had a natural 3NT available over 3S that would have slowed us down a lot)
(I'm not sure we were always planning the 5-level; if partner had a natural 3NT available over 3S that would have slowed us down a lot)
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Posted 2007-July-05, 13:57
FrancesHinden, on Jul 5 2007, 10:45 AM, said:
If we were always planning to go to the 5-level, why didn't we bid 4S last round?
(I'm not sure we were always planning the 5-level; if partner had a natural 3NT available over 3S that would have slowed us down a lot)
(I'm not sure we were always planning the 5-level; if partner had a natural 3NT available over 3S that would have slowed us down a lot)
In my regular partnership, I would take a direct 4♠ as exclusion, which gets us until trouble, since 5♦ (for us anyway) over 4N (we know thats the response) asks about Kings and we are committing this hand unilaterally to the 6 level.
Slowing the auction with 3♠, and letting pard cue Kings seems the way to go.
"Phil" on BBO
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Posted 2007-July-06, 10:19
We should have something like 24-26 working points. Slam should have a play for, so that's what I'll bid now: 6♥.
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S - W - N - E
1♥-2♠-3♦*-ps
3♠-ps-4♣-ps
??