[Gerben42]

General Petraeus was on every channel yesterday (picture here from Volkskrant, Dutch newspaper)


I've asked myself this question a lot of times, maybe someone here knows...

What is the meaning of this colourful plaquette on the general's left breast pocket? And what do the colours mean?

[Aberlour10]

As far I know these are miniature symbols of the medals and distinctions he is decorated..

edited:

look here, there are detailed explenations

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/ar...EUS_206954a.gif

[matmat]

each medal comes with a ribbon with a particular pattern. if he were to wear all the medals, he'd be kinda hampered by all the weight. so they have little substitute ribbon bits.

[Gerben42]

Quote

As far I know these are miniature symbols of the medals and distinctions he is decorated..

Ah, I knew they were some kind of military masterpoints.

Thanks!

[mike777]

Gerben42, on Apr 9 2008, 01:16 AM, said:

General Petraeus was on every channel yesterday (picture here from Volkskrant, Dutch newspaper)


I've asked myself this question a lot of times, maybe someone here knows...

What is the meaning of this colourful plaquette on the general's left breast pocket? And what do the colours mean?

It means he is a hero who risked his life for his country...did you? or did you just yap...yap yap...?

Have you ever risked your life for your country?

edit

hmm that was tooo strong........

should be directed to others on bbo....

[jdonn]

I wish I was a master parachutist too.

[mike777]

jdonn, on Apr 9 2008, 02:51 AM, said:

I wish I was a master parachutist too.

Really?


If you are under 40 not too late....to be one

ty and God Bless you for your service, you are very brave!

[Gerben42]

Quote

It means he is a hero who risked his life for his country...did you? or did you just yap...yap yap...?

Have you ever risked your life for your country?

No, and I don't want to either. If there's war coming, I'd run away rather than participate. I rather be an alive coward than a dead hero thank you very much.

Even so, I spent most of my life studying things that are useful for planning stuff and solving problems, not the military style "follow orders blindly".

What is "yap yap" anyway?

[Al_U_Card]

The greatest service is to ensure that those people in harm's way are not there......unnecessarily.

If you support and promote militarism then you are guilty of a crime against humanity.

Be humane, choose life, take the time to understand and appreciate your family, your countrymen and your "enemies" as well, for they are us and we are them.

[kenberg]

Gerben42, on Apr 9 2008, 06:46 AM, said:

Quote

It means he is a hero who risked his life for his country...did you? or did you just yap...yap yap...?

Have you ever risked your life for your country?

No, and I don't want to either. If there's war coming, I'd run away rather than participate. I rather be an alive coward than a dead hero thank you very much.

Even so, I spent most of my life studying things that are useful for planning stuff and solving problems, not the military style "follow orders blindly".

What is "yap yap" anyway?

Don't be so sure. I know it is brash to doubt you on this but just as I don't take claims of future courage at face value I am skeptical of your blanket statement. Whatever the case, we are in debt to those who have chosen to serve.


We need to appreciate this. And we need to think two, three, and maybe four times before we send someone out there to maybe get himself killed. We damn well better know what we are doing.

[hrothgar]

mike777, on Apr 9 2008, 10:41 AM, said:

It means he is a hero who risked his life for his country...did you? or did you just yap...yap yap...?

Have you ever risked your life for your country?

edit

hmm that was tooo strong........

should be directed to others on bbo....

Look who's whining about "yap, yap, yap..." Our resident idiot from the Republican right

For the record: I never risked my life for my country. Don't think that I ever would. I don't consider "My country" to be anything of particular value. I do think that there are certain values and principles worth dying for, but mindless belligerent nationalism sure as hell isn't one of them. On those occasions where I see the US acting in accord with said principles, I'll support the country fully. However, I see a hell of lot of occasions where I think that our actions are less than inspiring...

As for the men and women in uniform: There's an awful lot of different reasons why people choose to serve. There are some genuine heros - Pat Tilman comes to mind - who walk away from great lives in order to serve in the military. However, there are a hell of a lot of studies out there that say that most folks who enlist make the decision based on some combination of poor job prospects and boredom. (The New York Review of Books had an excellent piece on this very subject a month or two back focusing on Fort Drum, New York)

As for the hero risking his life for the cause: I always thought that Patton had the right attitude. I believe that the quote goes something like this: "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. ... "

Risking your life isn't a virtue, its typically a sign of poor planning.

Out of curiousity Mike, I was curious what war your served in... When was it that you were putting yourself at risk?

[vuroth]

Al_U_Card, on Apr 9 2008, 07:01 AM, said:

Be humane, choose life, take the time to understand and appreciate your family, your countrymen and your "enemies" as well, for they are us and we are them.

Not all enemies can be reasoned with.

Quote

No, and I don't want to either. If there's war coming, I'd run away rather than participate. I rather be an alive coward than a dead hero thank you very much.

If someone were coming to try to harm me, personally, I'd rather run away than fight.

If someone were in the process of harming my friends and family, I'd rather fight than run.

The question I guess, is what is pacifism - I won't fight unless I have to, or I won't fight no matter what happens.

[Al_U_Card]

I would fight to defend the rights and safety of my self, my family and if necessary due to invasion, my country.

This is and should always be the last method to be used because it is the least "efficient" as it invariably involves death and destruction.

That much of humanity is barbarous or blood-thirsty is nonsense. Any and all peoples, provided with the means to live in peace and prosperity do not have an inherent desire to spread mayhem about themselves. They are more interested in self-indulgence (in all its good and bad forms).

Search to resolve and assist rather than confront and restrict and the end result will alway be more mutually beneficial.



p.s. I believe that the Generals "ribbons" are indicative of the various military campaigns that he was involved in during his career. The more time he spent in the forces, the greater the number of ribbons describing his expoits.

[vuroth]

Al_U_Card, on Apr 9 2008, 09:45 AM, said:

This is and should always be the last method to be used because it is the least "efficient" as it invariably involves death and destruction.

That much of humanity is barbarous or blood-thirsty is nonsense. Any and all peoples, provided with the means to live in peace and prosperity do not have an inherent desire to spread mayhem about themselves. They are more interested in self-indulgence (in all its good and bad forms).

No argument on the first point.

As a prominent writer in my country once said, no modern democracy has ever declared war on another modern democracy.

The problem, mainly, is that a lot of countries are not democracies. They do not value human rights and human life as we do. Many countries involve power and prosperity being in the hands of the few, and the repression and oppression that they use to stay in power are not "peace", by my definition.

Concentration camps, gulags, state-sanctioned violence against people based on gender, religion and/or race exist in this world. While I would love to believe that rational discussion will one day end all of this, I am sceptical.

Violence IS being perpetrated against our brethern. It happens every day, and we do not even lift a finger.

I refuse to accept that all those who take up arms in the service of others are criminals, or immoral. (Nor do I assert that they are all moral.) Life just isn't that simple.

[blackshoe]

I'm not gonna get drawn into this, but here's some information I think is pertinent:

General Petraeus' biography.
Explanation of US military awards and decorations.
Some Kipling.

[jtfanclub]

vuroth, on Apr 9 2008, 10:04 AM, said:

I refuse to accept that all those who take up arms in the service of others are criminals, or immoral. (Nor do I assert that they are all moral.) Life just isn't that simple.

I don't believe that's what he said.

Militarism is the belief that problems should be solved by the military, or that civillian life should mirror the military. Joining the military is a job, it has nothing to do with militarism.

[jtfanclub]

mike777, on Apr 9 2008, 02:41 AM, said:

It means he is a hero who risked his life for his country...did you? or did you just yap...yap yap...?

If by risked his life you mean shot accidentally shot by his fellow soldier and having his parachute fail to open during a practice run, then yes, absolutely.

If you mean on the battlefield, well, the first time he saw combat he was 54 and the closest he came to being in combat was a mortar round landing a hundred yards away.

Which is not to say that there's anything wrong with that. He's been an excellent administrator and leader of men, and the Army needs those. But I'm not sure how this makes him some kind of hero.

[kenberg]

If I were in uniform in Iraq, I would wish to be led by someone who knows what he is doing. If he had medals for heroism, no doubt that would be icing, but first and foremost I would want him to lead us to success and, if possible, keep me alive.

I am sure that there is no shortage of heroism in Iraq. And the General seems up to the task of military planning and leadership. As we move into the full presidential campaign we need some deep thinking about our future in the whole Middle East region. We have had it easy with the Saudis. They sell us oil, we sell them weapons, they have their society that strikes us as more than a little weird, but as long as the oil flows and they buy our weapons we leave it be. With Iraq, and with Iran, and very possibly in the future with the Saudis, this easy (albeit cynical) agreement won't hold. We need some realistic discussion of what we are going to do five and ten years down the line. I haven't heard much. Withdraw the troops. Yes, and then? Pray, I think is the plan.

Petraeus is doing fine (well, better than was previously done anyway). We need to ask Crocker how he sees the future. A stable democracy in a cooperative relationship with us infidels? Really?

[Al_U_Card]

kenberg, on Apr 9 2008, 01:26 PM, said:

A stable democracy in a cooperative relationship with us infidels? Really?

Yeah, right.

Since the Han dynasty, Afghanistan etc. have been invaded and then left alone.

You may have a hornets nest on your garage but you don't knock it down and then sit on it...

[jdonn]

Al_U_Card, on Apr 9 2008, 02:09 PM, said:

Since the Han dynasty.....

Insert funny han comment here __________