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cue-advancing an overcall of a weak two

#1 User is offline   DJNeill 

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Posted 2008-December-28, 11:55

Hi all,
What is standard here:

(2H)-2S-(P)-
3H = ?
3S = ?

This is never discussed in any books I've seen.

Thanks,
Dan
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#2 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2008-December-28, 12:11

I would think the standard for 3 is to show a forcing raise. If you want to ask for a stopper, bid a new suit first.
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#3 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2008-December-28, 12:52

Agreed :)
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#4 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2008-December-28, 14:15

I expect most people would say that:

2-2-P-3 is a forcing raise but...

2-3-P-3 is primarily a stopper ask.

Perhaps a rule is that the cuebid always shows game values and denies holding the right hand to make any cheaper forcing bid. Since in the first auction 3m is natural and forcing, the 3 bid pretty much has to be a raise. In the second auction there is no cheaper forcing bid so 3 could be pretty much anything.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#5 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2008-December-28, 14:28

Hi,

Standard: 3S inv. raise, new suit non forcing, any strong
hand goes via the cue, it asks for further description,
and if the hand with the overcall contains a stopper, you
show the stopper 3H asking for a stopper.
Basically this is the same, as if they had opened 1H.

If you want to go scientific, look out for Rubens Advances,
basically you use transfers as response.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#6 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-December-28, 17:28

What is standard may vary from place to place, but it seems both wasteful and unusual to play 3 as a strong raise.

Without discussion I would assume:
3/ = natural, game-forcing
3 = artificial game force, initially asking for a stop. If followed by a new suit, that's a cue bid in support of spades.
3 = invitational

I don't much like the idea of bidding 3 on a 2344 14-count without a heart stop.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#7 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2008-December-28, 19:11

to me 3 is not a forcing raise, it is invitational or more, 3 is a courtesy raise.
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#8 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2008-December-28, 20:26

I'm with fluffy
- Andy -

We are all connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically.
We're in the universe, and the universe is in us.
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#9 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2008-December-28, 20:38

Agree with both the above.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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