[TylerE]

Playing sound 2/1 style.

What's you

Scoring: IMP

p-(p)-1♥-(p)
1♠-(2♦)-?

---

Once you've decided on your first bid, read this hidden:

Spoiler

W will bid 3♦ or 4♦ if able.

[jdonn]

4♣. I have clubs so I bid them, I have a really good hand so I jump. And by my agreements I am not worried about partner taking it as a splinter since when they overcall I can only splinter in their suit.

[mtvesuvius]

OK... Why did I open this 1♥? This is the exact rebid problem that I would hate to have... 4♣ is a splinter, 5♣ sounds like exclusion, 3♣ is NF! I think I will bid 3♦, then rebid 6♣ maybe... I'm not sure

[FrancesHinden]

jdonn, on Jan 21 2009, 04:26 PM, said:

4♣. I have clubs so I bid them, I have a really good hand so I jump. And by my agreements I am not worried about partner taking it as a splinter since when they overcall I can only splinter in their suit.

me2

[TylerE]

What if you had the agreement that 3♣ is forcing. (Meta-agreement...new suit by UPH 100% forcing). (And yes, it was this exact doubt that led to the somewhat comical (but lucky!) auction that resulted. I won't give the full auction (yet), but I'll just say I found Kx of ♣ onside in the grand...

[mike777]

TylerE, on Jan 21 2009, 11:14 AM, said:

Playing sound 2/1 style.

What's you

Scoring: IMP

p-(p)-1♥-(p)
1♠-(2♦)-?

---

Once you've decided on your first bid, read this hidden:

Spoiler

W will bid 3♦ or 4♦ if able.

3c, and yes I would have opened this 2c with this two suiter if allowed.

[skjaeran]

4♣ natural and strong, as Josh and Frances. 3♣ would also be forcing, of course, but not showing THIS hand.

Agree with 1♥ opening.

[TylerE]

Ok, I suppose I should now own up to the actual horrible auction I perpetrated.

p-(p)-1♥-(p)
1♠-(2♦)-3♦-(4♦)
4♠-(p)-6♣-(p)
7♣-AP

Partner held:

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good...

---

[whereagles]

2NT good-bad. Obviously the good variety

[mtvesuvius]

So you bid it the same way I did?

[Phil]

Is 3♣ forcing? uh no.

So 4♣ isn't a splinter. Got it?

Isn't it nice to have a descriptive bid available?

[skjaeran]

Phil, on Jan 22 2009, 06:25 AM, said:

Is 3♣ forcing? uh no.

Unless you play GB2NT or something similar (or maybe stone age Acol?), 3♣, a new suit at the 3-level, is forcing.

[JLOL]

skaeran, on Jan 22 2009, 01:32 AM, said:

Phil, on Jan 22 2009, 06:25 AM, said:

Is 3♣ forcing? uh no.

Unless you play GB2NT or something similar (or maybe stone age Acol?), 3♣, a new suit at the 3-level, is forcing.

Huh? Very very strongly disagree.

Honestly I only didn't LOL because I have a lot of respect for skaeran, but this is not true. You cannot pass with a 55 15/16 count for instance, but you also don't have enough to force. You CAN cuebid if you want to force (or jump shift with 4C). As Clee pointed out in a recent thread, the "new suit is forcing at the 3 level" rule only responds to responders, not openers or overcallers.

[orlam]

JLOL, on Jan 22 2009, 01:56 AM, said:

skaeran, on Jan 22 2009, 01:32 AM, said:

Phil, on Jan 22 2009, 06:25 AM, said:

Is 3♣ forcing? uh no.

Unless you play GB2NT or something similar (or maybe stone age Acol?), 3♣, a new suit at the 3-level, is forcing.

Huh? Very very strongly disagree.

Honestly I only didn't LOL because I have a lot of respect for skaeran, but this is not true. You cannot pass with a 55 15/16 count for instance, but you also don't have enough to force. You CAN cuebid if you want to force (or jump shift with 4C). As Clee pointed out in a recent thread, the "new suit is forcing at the 3 level" rule only responds to responders, not openers or overcallers.

Thanks, I was really confused for a second!

[MarkDean]

I agree with the gerber bidders.

[FrancesHinden]

JLOL, on Jan 22 2009, 06:56 AM, said:

skaeran, on Jan 22 2009, 01:32 AM, said:

Phil, on Jan 22 2009, 06:25 AM, said:

Is 3♣ forcing? uh no.

Unless you play GB2NT or something similar (or maybe stone age Acol?), 3♣, a new suit at the 3-level, is forcing.

Huh? Very very strongly disagree.

Honestly I only didn't LOL because I have a lot of respect for skaeran, but this is not true. You cannot pass with a 55 15/16 count for instance, but you also don't have enough to force. You CAN cuebid if you want to force (or jump shift with 4C). As Clee pointed out in a recent thread, the "new suit is forcing at the 3 level" rule only responds to responders, not openers or overcallers.

Just to avoid any further confusion...

A new suit at the 3-level by opener in an uncontested auction is forcing.

What's different here is that opener can't bid his clubs any other way, and won't want to pass over the overcall with any decent 5-5.

If you play good/bad 2NT here, then usually even the 'good' 3C bid is not played as forcing: the advantage of g/b is that you can distinguish both a minimum distributional hand and a full constructive values hand.

[whereagles]

mtvesuvius, on Jan 21 2009, 10:28 PM, said:

So you bid it the same way I did?

what's your way?

[mtvesuvius]

whereagles, on Jan 22 2009, 05:14 AM, said:

mtvesuvius, on Jan 21 2009, 10:28 PM, said:

So you bid it the same way I did?

what's your way?

I bid 3♦, then jumped to 6♣... Not very scientific, but it paints a rough picture of my hand.