[Gerben42]

Scoring: IMP

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4♥ Dbl Pass 4♠
Dbl Pass ?

What does Dbl mean and what do you bid (I guess they are very much connected)

[JLOL]

Partner wants to bid 5H but doesn't want to bid in front of you. I would bid 5H.

[helene_t]

Yes, that's what the double means. I can't see more than two defensive tricks plus probably the ace of hearts, so 5♥ it is.

[P_Marlowe]

Partner suggests add. defence, at least 1 def. trick,
he asks you, how you view the prospects defeating 4S.

If you have 0 tricks, you should bid 5H, with prospects of
making 2 tricks you should pass.
=> With your given hand: Pass.

The Alternative is, that he completly denies any def. trick,
and just showes a 5H preemptive opening, in which case
you would need a prospect of making at least 3 tricks.
=> With your given hand: Pass.

It is wonderfull to have a hand, which does not care about
the actual meaning.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Gerben42]

Quote

The Alternative is, that he completly denies any def. trick,
and just showes a 5H preemptive opening, in which case
you would need a prospect of making at least 3 tricks.
=> With your given hand: Pass.

If you then make your 3 tricks, you would write -590. Opponents usually insist that they made their contract unless you take FOUR tricks...

[JLOL]

Uhh partner wants to bid at the 5 level all by himself and this is my hand. I expect both sides to make sometimes, and neither side to make very rarely.

[Gerben42]

If partner has

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we might even make our 5♥ and they make 5♠...

[mikeh]

I think that the answer depends on methods, and then on agreements.

One school of thought has been that the double shows an unexpectedly strong preempt.. with better defence than you would expect.. and invites you to decide whether to pass or bid.. opener expecting that either decision will, if chosen correctly, be better than defending 4♠ x'd.. so I'd expect, on this view, very good hearts, and a trick or two outsise.. he was bidding 4♥ primarily to make, rather than as a preemptive strike.

Our hand suggests that he doesn't have that hand.

The other school of thought is as jlol suggests... he has a super-preempt, suitable for a 5-level save, but since your defensive prospects are unknown, he doesn't want to save unilaterally, and he is involving you.

I prefer the 2nd, but I'd be nervous as opener doing this undiscussed. At the table, as responder, I pull because if he has the first hand, we should make, and if he has the second hand, we have a good save or even a make.

[jdonn]

mikeh, on Jan 23 2009, 11:45 AM, said:

I think that the answer depends on methods, and then on agreements.

One school of thought has been that the double shows an unexpectedly strong preempt.. with better defence than you would expect.. and invites you to decide whether to pass or bid.. opener expecting that either decision will, if chosen correctly, be better than defending 4♠ x'd.. so I'd expect, on this view, very good hearts, and a trick or two outsise.. he was bidding 4♥ primarily to make, rather than as a preemptive strike.

Our hand suggests that he doesn't have that hand.

The other school of thought is as jlol suggests... he has a super-preempt, suitable for a 5-level save, but since your defensive prospects are unknown, he doesn't want to save unilaterally, and he is involving you.

I prefer the 2nd, but I'd be nervous as opener doing this undiscussed. At the table, as responder, I pull because if he has the first hand, we should make, and if he has the second hand, we have a good save or even a make.

I play the first way when the opening was in 3rd or 4th seat, or it was an overcall. And the way that says you want to bid one more when the opening was in 1st or 2nd seat. To me that seems pretty normal? I won't want to open a stronger hand at the 4 level in one of the first two seats, but in the last two seats or as an overcall I may easily want to since slam chances become quite slim.

[Gerben42]

Quote

I prefer the 2nd, but I'd be nervous as opener doing this undiscussed.

You want to do the 1st undiscussed? Not me

[mikeh]

Gerben42, on Jan 23 2009, 01:44 PM, said:

Quote

I prefer the 2nd, but I'd be nervous as opener doing this undiscussed.

You want to do the 1st undiscussed? Not me

no.. I would be nervous doubling, undiscussed, because I would be guessing which way partner would take it.. on the actual hand, I think that I'd get away with it because I think responder has a 5♥ call on either view. But that wouldn't stop me being nervous, until I saw dummy.

[mtvesuvius]

I'm with JLOL here. This is cooperative, giving partner an option to pass with 5♠ or lots of defense, after all they might have guessed wrong, and isn't the whole point of pre-empts to make your opponents guess wrong? I bid 5♥. 3rd/4th seat I pass because as Mike said, now X shows extra values.

[JLOL]

Agree with Jdonn, it is pretty much never my style to open 4M in first or second seat with a really strong hand, I would always open 1 to try to avoid missing slam. So that rules out mikeh's option 1 for me as a possibility.

[gnasher]

I think it shows extra offence and extra defence. Something like - AQJxxxxx Axx xx, where I'd rather open 4♥ and then double 4♠ than open 1♥ and have to bid 5♥ on the next round.

As responder, I bid 5♥, hoping to make.