BBO Discussion Forums: What does partner want? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

What does partner want?

#1 User is offline   Gerben42 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,577
  • Joined: 2005-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erlangen, Germany
  • Interests:Astronomy, Mathematics
    Nuclear power

Posted 2009-January-23, 02:21

Scoring: IMP


4 Dbl Pass 4
Dbl Pass ?

What does Dbl mean and what do you bid (I guess they are very much connected)
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
My Bridge Systems Page

BC Kultcamp Rieneck
0

#2 User is offline   JLOL 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,033
  • Joined: 2008-December-05

Posted 2009-January-23, 02:29

Partner wants to bid 5H but doesn't want to bid in front of you. I would bid 5H.
0

#3 User is offline   helene_t 

  • The Abbess
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,397
  • Joined: 2004-April-22
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Odense, Denmark
  • Interests:History, languages

Posted 2009-January-23, 04:29

Yes, that's what the double means. I can't see more than two defensive tricks plus probably the ace of hearts, so 5 it is.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
0

#4 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,841
  • Joined: 2005-March-18
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2009-January-23, 04:51

Partner suggests add. defence, at least 1 def. trick,
he asks you, how you view the prospects defeating 4S.

If you have 0 tricks, you should bid 5H, with prospects of
making 2 tricks you should pass.
=> With your given hand: Pass.

The Alternative is, that he completly denies any def. trick,
and just showes a 5H preemptive opening, in which case
you would need a prospect of making at least 3 tricks.
=> With your given hand: Pass.

It is wonderfull to have a hand, which does not care about
the actual meaning.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
0

#5 User is offline   Gerben42 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,577
  • Joined: 2005-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erlangen, Germany
  • Interests:Astronomy, Mathematics
    Nuclear power

Posted 2009-January-23, 05:28

Quote

The Alternative is, that he completly denies any def. trick,
and just showes a 5H preemptive opening, in which case
you would need a prospect of making at least 3 tricks.
=> With your given hand: Pass.


If you then make your 3 tricks, you would write -590. Opponents usually insist that they made their contract unless you take FOUR tricks...
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
My Bridge Systems Page

BC Kultcamp Rieneck
0

#6 User is offline   JLOL 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,033
  • Joined: 2008-December-05

Posted 2009-January-23, 06:59

Uhh partner wants to bid at the 5 level all by himself and this is my hand. I expect both sides to make sometimes, and neither side to make very rarely.
0

#7 User is offline   Gerben42 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,577
  • Joined: 2005-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erlangen, Germany
  • Interests:Astronomy, Mathematics
    Nuclear power

Posted 2009-January-23, 07:26

If partner has


we might even make our 5 and they make 5...
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
My Bridge Systems Page

BC Kultcamp Rieneck
0

#8 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,590
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2009-January-23, 10:45

I think that the answer depends on methods, and then on agreements.

One school of thought has been that the double shows an unexpectedly strong preempt.. with better defence than you would expect.. and invites you to decide whether to pass or bid.. opener expecting that either decision will, if chosen correctly, be better than defending 4 x'd.. so I'd expect, on this view, very good hearts, and a trick or two outsise.. he was bidding 4 primarily to make, rather than as a preemptive strike.

Our hand suggests that he doesn't have that hand.

The other school of thought is as jlol suggests... he has a super-preempt, suitable for a 5-level save, but since your defensive prospects are unknown, he doesn't want to save unilaterally, and he is involving you.

I prefer the 2nd, but I'd be nervous as opener doing this undiscussed. At the table, as responder, I pull because if he has the first hand, we should make, and if he has the second hand, we have a good save or even a make.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#9 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2009-January-23, 10:50

mikeh, on Jan 23 2009, 11:45 AM, said:

I think that the answer depends on methods, and then on agreements.

One school of thought has been that the double shows an unexpectedly strong preempt.. with better defence than you would expect.. and invites you to decide whether to pass or bid.. opener expecting that either decision will, if chosen correctly, be better than defending 4 x'd.. so I'd expect, on this view, very good hearts, and a trick or two outsise.. he was bidding 4 primarily to make, rather than as a preemptive strike.

Our hand suggests that he doesn't have that hand.

The other school of thought is as jlol suggests... he has a super-preempt, suitable for a 5-level save, but since your defensive prospects are unknown, he doesn't want to save unilaterally, and he is involving you.

I prefer the 2nd, but I'd be nervous as opener doing this undiscussed. At the table, as responder, I pull because if he has the first hand, we should make, and if he has the second hand, we have a good save or even a make.

I play the first way when the opening was in 3rd or 4th seat, or it was an overcall. And the way that says you want to bid one more when the opening was in 1st or 2nd seat. To me that seems pretty normal? I won't want to open a stronger hand at the 4 level in one of the first two seats, but in the last two seats or as an overcall I may easily want to since slam chances become quite slim.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#10 User is offline   Gerben42 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 5,577
  • Joined: 2005-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Erlangen, Germany
  • Interests:Astronomy, Mathematics
    Nuclear power

Posted 2009-January-23, 12:44

Quote

I prefer the 2nd, but I'd be nervous as opener doing this undiscussed.


You want to do the 1st undiscussed? Not me :rolleyes:
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do!
My Bridge Systems Page

BC Kultcamp Rieneck
0

#11 User is offline   mikeh 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 13,590
  • Joined: 2005-June-15
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.

Posted 2009-January-23, 12:58

Gerben42, on Jan 23 2009, 01:44 PM, said:

Quote

I prefer the 2nd, but I'd be nervous as opener doing this undiscussed.


You want to do the 1st undiscussed? Not me :rolleyes:

no.. I would be nervous doubling, undiscussed, because I would be guessing which way partner would take it.. on the actual hand, I think that I'd get away with it because I think responder has a 5 call on either view. But that wouldn't stop me being nervous, until I saw dummy.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
0

#12 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

  • Vesuvius the Violent Volcano
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,216
  • Joined: 2008-December-04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tampa-Area, Florida
  • Interests:SLEEPING

Posted 2009-January-23, 13:50

I'm with JLOL here. This is cooperative, giving partner an option to pass with 5 or lots of defense, after all they might have guessed wrong, and isn't the whole point of pre-empts to make your opponents guess wrong? I bid 5. 3rd/4th seat I pass because as Mike said, now X shows extra values.
Yay for the "Ignored Users" feature!
0

#13 User is offline   JLOL 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,033
  • Joined: 2008-December-05

Posted 2009-January-23, 16:20

Agree with Jdonn, it is pretty much never my style to open 4M in first or second seat with a really strong hand, I would always open 1 to try to avoid missing slam. So that rules out mikeh's option 1 for me as a possibility.
0

#14 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2009-January-24, 08:35

I think it shows extra offence and extra defence. Something like - AQJxxxxx Axx xx, where I'd rather open 4 and then double 4 than open 1 and have to bid 5 on the next round.

As responder, I bid 5, hoping to make.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users