[hrothgar]

Free and I had a pretty good session yesterday.

Here's the hand that I consider the most interesting:

Scoring: IMP

---

Our auction

(P) - 1♥ - (P) - 4♠
(P) - 5♠ - all pass

1♥ showed 4+ Spades, might have a longer minor

4♠ = to play (I considered this a good double shot. I'm a little light to insist on game, but given 5 card trump support, two bullets, and a stiff, 4♠ seemed like the best bid)

5♠ = asking about trump quality

Pass = Sure, I have a fifth spade, but no honors.

6 Spades rolled home based on the ruffing finesse.

Interesting hand for a couple reasons.

1. We ended up in a rather in-elegant contract. 5M isn't quite as bad as 2NT, but its far from my favorite contract.

2. Free's hand is a nasty hole for the system.
Suppressing the Diamond suit is an ungly choice. At the same time, a 1♠ opening (promising an unbalanced hand with 4+ Diamonds) substantially misrepresents the strength of the Spade suit.

Curious how folks would bid this in their stnadard partnerships...

[inquiry]

I suspect most would open north 1♦ playing five card majors. East will venture a 1♥ call. Actually both of these will help you towards the vey lucky slam.

South will show spades, etiher with a negative double, or by bidding 1♠, depending upon style and how long they consider that spade suit. If their bid promises five, slam will pretty much end up being bid.

West will probably raise hearts... and norht will make a splinter raise to game (jumping to 4♥ would be a popular choice here.. so the bidding so far...


1[id] - 1♥ - 1♠ - 2♥
4♥

The remainder of the auction is fuzzy, will EAST double (mistake), will you consider your two bullets, ruffing value in partners suit enough to go on? Etc. Playing ZAR, the leap to 4♥ probably shows a minimum of about 34 zar points. Your hand has 26 or 28 depending upon rather or not you promised 5♠ with your initial response. 34+26 = 60 just short of slam, 34+38 = 62 just enough for slam. So a slam try here seems vaguely appropriate. How many ZAR's did you parnter have? Well, he has 38, so if you invite, he will go.

I could imagine a leap to 5♠ over 4♥ by your hand (and norths trumps are clearly good enough to go)...

IT is a lucky slam, however. and there is no shame in playing in 4♠ or 5♠, as it is 50% at best (ispades have to behave and you have to find the ♦K.

[whereagles]

On this particular hand, slam isn't a good one. But swapping heart jack to spade jack makes slam decent. On a 2/1 it might go

p (p) 1D (1H)
1S (2/3H) 4H (p)
...

and now it depends a bit on South's judgement.

[Free]

Yeah, it's not every day I ignore good 7 card suits for a 4 card M

Normally 4♠ response is to play, no slam ambition opposite any hand I can have, but I thought my hand was good enough this time to go on. I wondered about a 5♥ exclusion blackwood, but I didn't want to end up with bidding misunderstandings... 5♠ seemed the best for me to do.

[Free]

Looks like we're all posting at the same time Why does west only bid 2♥? This is an immediate 3♥ for me... Then however, south will know his partner is void.

[daswallow]

Playing SAYC, i expect:
1♦, 1♥, 1♠, 3♥
4♥, p , 5♣, p
5♦, p , 5♥, p
5♠, p , p , p
So end up in 5s.
South will not be prepared to bid the slam with such bad spades, and North knows south has A!h and not K!d from this auction.

[the hog]

My take on this - playing Moscito
once Sth bids 4S, that is it! IfNth intends to move, he should have opened 1C. No ifs, no buts.
Note that 6S is not a great contract on a C lead.

[Free]

♣ lead doesn't influence anything, you can discard the small ♣ on ♥A...

[the hog]

True - I just got home after pd misbid the system on 8 boards out of 28 - sorry!

Still pass by the way!

[inquiry]

The_Hog, on Aug 10 2004, 10:07 AM, said:

True - I just got home after pd misbid the system on 8 boards out of 28 - sorry!

Still pass by the way!

No you were still right ron.. 6♠ is not a great contract... need luck in spades and need to find the ♦K.. less than 50%, jsut maybe not as bad as you were thinking at first.

Ben

[Free]

It all depends on the ♠s, but not immediatly on ♦K. You can ruff the suit free if ♠ behave - and usually they don't . I also wouldn't like to be in 6♠ on these hands. Nobody can blame South for not bidding slam, he has only 9HCP, and no good ♠s... Was a lucky one, still gave us 59%

[TimG]

Free, on Aug 10 2004, 08:20 AM, said:

Yeah, it's not every day I ignore good 7 card suits for a 4 card M

Normally 4♠ response is to play, no slam ambition opposite any hand I can have, but I thought my hand was good enough this time to go on. I wondered about a 5♥ exclusion blackwood, but I didn't want to end up with bidding misunderstandings... 5♠ seemed the best for me to do.

I happened to be watching when you played this hand and caught the postmortem. Does 1♥ deny long hearts, that is do you canape with length in both majors?

What would 5♦ over 4♠ have shown. You wouldn't want that to be exclusion keycard, would you? I can't see any reason for 5♥ to be exclusion either. If you're moving over partner's 4♠ signoff, you ought to have some sort of freak, maybe 66 in the majors for 5♥ or 47 in spades and diamonds for 5♦.

Tim

[TimG]

hrothgar, on Aug 10 2004, 08:01 AM, said:

1♥ showed 4+ Spades, might have a longer minor

It might be useful to explain what sorts of limits there are on a 1♥ opening bid. Knowing the limited nature of the call, would make your 4♠ "signoff" look a lotmore reasonable.

[hrothgar]

TimG, on Aug 10 2004, 06:52 PM, said:

Free, on Aug 10 2004, 08:20 AM, said:

Yeah, it's not every day I ignore good 7 card suits for a 4 card M   

Normally 4♠ response is to play, no slam ambition opposite any hand I can have, but I thought my hand was good enough this time to go on.  I wondered about a 5♥ exclusion blackwood, but I didn't want to end up with bidding misunderstandings...  5♠ seemed the best for me to do.

I happened to be watching when you played this hand and caught the postmortem. Does 1♥ deny long hearts, that is do you canape with length in both majors?

What would 5♦ over 4♠ have shown. You wouldn't want that to be exclusion keycard, would you? I can't see any reason for 5♥ to be exclusion either. If you're moving over partner's 4♠ signoff, you ought to have some sort of freak, maybe 66 in the majors for 5♥ or 47 in spades and diamonds for 5♦.

Tim

The 1♥ opening denies longer Spades.
If Hearts = Spades, then opener is 4-4 in the majors

[TimG]

hrothgar, on Aug 10 2004, 11:17 AM, said:

The 1♥ opening denies longer Spades.
If Hearts = Spades, then opener is 4-4 in the majors

Denies longer spades, or denies longer hearts? Either is possible in a canape system, of course. If the 1♥ opening denied longer hearts, then perhaps 75 in the majors. If it denied longer spades, perhaps 57 in the majors. At any rate, when opener is considering bidding over the signoff, I would imagine being able to show a freak is more important than being able to use exclusion.

Tim

[Free]

As usual Richard made a typo 1♥ promisses 4+♠, and shorter or equal ♥ (not 4-4).

[pclayton]

hrothgar, on Aug 10 2004, 05:01 AM, said:

Free and I had a pretty good session yesterday.

Here's the hand that I consider the most interesting:

Dealer: West Vul: None Scoring: IMP

♠ KQ95 ♥   ♦ AQJT864 ♣ T7 ♠ J6 ♥ QT83 ♦ 973 ♣ K432 ♠ AT ♥ K9754 ♦ K2 ♣ QJ96 ♠ 87432 ♥ AJ62 ♦ 5 ♣ A85

Our auction

(P) - 1♥ - (P) - 4♠
(P) - 5♠ - all pass

1♥ showed 4+ Spades, might have a longer minor

4♠ = to play (I considered this a good double shot.  I'm a little light to insist on game, but given 5 card trump support, two bullets, and a stiff, 4♠ seemed like the best bid)

5♠ = asking about trump quality

Pass = Sure, I have a fifth spade, but no honors.

6 Spades rolled home based on the ruffing finesse.

Interesting hand for a couple reasons.

1.  We ended up in a rather in-elegant contract.  5M isn't quite as bad as 2NT, but its far from my favorite contract.

2.  Free's hand is a nasty hole for the system.
Suppressing the Diamond suit is an ungly choice.  At the same time, a 1♠ opening (promising an unbalanced hand with 4+ Diamonds) substantially misrepresents the strength of the Spade suit.

Curious how folks would bid this in their stnadard partnerships...

Free: Maybe a 5♦ call should be a slam try with longer diamonds. You aren't trying to improve the contract, and exclusion BW doesn't much sense here.

I think a good standard auction would be:

1♦....(1♥)....1♠....2♥
4♦....(4♥)....Dbl....(Pass)
4♠....(Pass)....5♣....(Pass)
?

North has a tough choice here. The A♣ is a huge card, and I wouldn't crticize a 6♠ call.

4♦ is a walsh jump showing 6-4 or 7-4, with the points concentrated in the pointed suits.

[Rebound]

I'm no expert, as I am sure anyone who has read my previous posts will attest. However, using standard bidding, the auction that seems most likely to me is p-(1♦)-1♥-(1♠)-3♥-(4♥)-p-(5♠)-p-(6♠)

Since a negative double is available, 1♠ must promise 5 imo. 3♥ seems right given 4-card support and little defense. 4♥ would seem to be the best call to show slam interest. With a singleton opposite partner's singleton or void heart and a club control I would take a shot at 5♠.

Wadda ya think?

[inquiry]

Hi Rebound...

Take a new look at south's hand.. five yucky spades, heart A, and club A. What did he promise with 1♠? How has a 4♥ cue-bid improved his hand?

I agree that a jump to 5♠ by south is a looking for good trumps here, and there is no doubt that a 5♠ bid here will get a 6♠ bid from north, the question I have is what about a 4♥ cue-bid modivated the 5♠ slam try on minimum values. 4♥ might be just and attempt for slam if YOUR hand is suited... now if there is a jump to 4♥ (they bid 2♥ and partner jump to 4♥, that would be different I think).

But if your parnter only bids 4♥ with GREAT GREAT hands, then yes, 5♠ here is a good call.

Ben

[MarceldB]

Info for the Dutch and Flamish speaking readers:

I have used this board of hrotgar to write an article (11 pages including some side information) how to bid this hand in a HUM system (WOS).
If interested see this pdf

Best regards
Marcel