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I was directing on my local and was summoned to correct a score.
with 6/7 tricks to play in a suit contract, dummy had a good suit, side entry, and trumps were draw. Declarer claimed all tricks and opponents accepted.
It happens that opponents later after seeing all the scores with less tricks realiced that dummy wasn't providing enough discards to make the rest of the tricks and one trick has to be lost.
So I corrected the score, but while being there it seemed obvious to me that dummy, a better player than the others IMO, was totally aware of what has happened. Should he have just said what was wrong after partner claimed? might he be subject to some PP )or other) for not doing so on purpose?
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dummy letting a wrong claim go
#1
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Posted 2010-December-25, 12:59
#2
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Posted 2010-December-25, 13:23
I wouldn't be so certain dummy was "totally aware". When I'm dummy I frequently don't play that much attention to partner's declarer play, and my regular partners say the same about me. If partner claims, I trust them and don't think any further about it. (I don't bother saying "having none" either - I trust partner not to revoke!)
#3
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Posted 2010-December-25, 14:57
Agree with Frances. Many dummies are never aware.
This is even more true when the dummy is the better player. It's better to be unaware than to get annoyed by partner's declarer play. (I have seen a couple play bridge in harmony as long as the guy was reading a book while being dummy.)
Rik
This is even more true when the dummy is the better player. It's better to be unaware than to get annoyed by partner's declarer play. (I have seen a couple play bridge in harmony as long as the guy was reading a book while being dummy.)
Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
#4
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Posted 2010-December-25, 18:16
I agree with the other posters that it is not reasonable to asssume that dummy knew what was going on. However, even if he was aware he hasn't done anything illegal unless it was impossible for defence to lose the rest of the tricks (law 79A2), which, since they will have several discards to find, seems highly unlikely to be the case.
#5
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Posted 2010-December-25, 20:56
Maybe it's just me, but when I'm dummy I'm often more aware than partner. I find that it's easier to notice opponents' discards (and hence realize that a spot card in dummy is good) when I'm not under the pressure of trying to play the hand.
#6
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Posted 2010-December-26, 03:47
barmar, on 2010-December-25, 20:56, said:
Maybe it's just me, but when I'm dummy I'm often more aware than partner. I find that it's easier to notice opponents' discards (and hence realize that a spot card in dummy is good) when I'm not under the pressure of trying to play the hand.
I recognize that, but it only happens when I play with an equal partner.
When I play with a better partner he will not miss those spot cards.
When I play with a weaker partner, I will doze off.
Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
#7
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Posted 2010-December-26, 06:56
To summarise.
Many dummies know what is going on.
Many dummies do not know what is going on.
To assume that dummy will be aware seems unfair.
Many dummies know what is going on.
Many dummies do not know what is going on.
To assume that dummy will be aware seems unfair.
David Stevenson
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>
Merseyside England UK
EBL TD
Currently at home
Visiting IBLF from time to time
<webjak666@gmail.com>
#8
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Posted 2010-December-26, 17:41
bluejak, on 2010-December-26, 06:56, said:
To assume that dummy will be aware seems unfair.
That's quite true. Furthermore, to expect dummy to be aware seems even more so. There's nothing in the Laws that requires dummy to pay close attention to the play. He's allowed to, so that he can take advantage of his rights, but not forced to.
As a personaly opinion, I think he should pay attention, if only as a good mental excercise that will help with his bridge skills.
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Posted 2010-December-29, 16:46
barmar, on 2010-December-26, 17:41, said:
There's nothing in the Laws that requires dummy to pay close attention to the play.
Well there is actually, Law 74B1 "... a player should refrain from ... paying insufficient attention to the game".
Disclaimer: The above post may be a half-baked sarcastic rant intended to stimulate discussion and it does not necessarily coincide with my own views on this topic.
I ♦ bidding the suit below the suit I'm actually showing not to be described as a "transfer" for the benefit of people unfamiliar with the concept of a transfer
I ♦ bidding the suit below the suit I'm actually showing not to be described as a "transfer" for the benefit of people unfamiliar with the concept of a transfer
#10
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Posted 2010-December-29, 22:40
So which law says that "not close" is insufficient"? 
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Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#11
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Posted 2010-December-30, 14:26
Right. For dummy, it may be sufficient that he know which suit was led so he can play the correct card in response to an incomplete designation. Not that I've ever seen a dummy penalized for asking for a clarification. I've seen players start reading a book or newspaper, or knit, when they're dummy; I feel it's inappropriate, but if they can discharge their dummy duties, they get away with it.
#12
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Posted 2010-December-30, 15:05
Law 43A1{c} specifically prohibits dummy from participating in the play; and where dummy elsewhere in the laws are permitted any action the laws say "may", which in no way places any obligation on dummy.
I see nothing wrong when dummy takes the opportunity to let his brain rest (of course subject to declarer's consent) while declarer takes care of the play.
I see nothing wrong when dummy takes the opportunity to let his brain rest (of course subject to declarer's consent) while declarer takes care of the play.
#13
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Posted 2010-December-30, 16:05
barmar, on 2010-December-26, 17:41, said:
As a personaly opinion, I think he should pay attention, if only as a good mental excercise that will help with his bridge skills.
Sometimes true, and if I am playing with a player who I am mentoring it might provide me with material for discussion after the session. On the other hand, when I am in a tournament and playing multiple sessions in a day I often choose to relax as dummy to save my mental energies for those times when I am defending or declarer.
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