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NV vs V IMP
P (3♥) to you..
Q94, A5, AKQ73, K75
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pesky prempt
#1
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Posted 2011-January-03, 11:59
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
#2
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Posted 2011-January-03, 12:03
what a nice takeout double.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#3
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Posted 2011-January-03, 16:08
double looks obvious
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Posted 2011-January-04, 11:27
My partner is trying to get me to bid 3NT on all these hands. I still like double, followed by 3NT over partner's 3S (if that is what he bids), or raising a minor. But I am coming round to bidding 3NT if the majors are reversed and they open 3S.
#5
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Posted 2011-January-04, 11:52
Why is 3N preferable to double here, what should it show? I played this hand with Gerben and he also said he would rather I bid 3N. I didn't get chance to discuss it more with him so I'm starting the discussion here.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
#6
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Posted 2011-January-04, 11:56
jillybean, on 2011-January-04, 11:52, said:
Why is 3N preferable to double here, what should it show? I played this hand with Gerben and he also said he would rather I bid 3N. I didn't get chance to discuss it more with him so I'm starting the discussion here.
The advantage of 3N is that it is the single most likely contract, and unless partner has exactly four spades bidding 3N now is the only way to get there; if you double and partner bids 4C you wish you could get back to bidding 3N. The main advantage of double is that you get to play 4S if partner has exactly 5 spades.
3N just shows that you think you can make 3N, it can be based on different hand types - balanced or semi-balanced with a 6+minor, and of varying strengths.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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Posted 2011-January-04, 12:04
cherdano, on 2011-January-04, 11:56, said:
The advantage of 3N is that it is the single most likely contract, and unless partner has exactly four spades bidding 3N now is the only way to get there; if you double and partner bids 4C you wish you could get back to bidding 3N. The main advantage of double is that you get to play 4S if partner has exactly 5 spades.
3N just shows that you think you can make 3N, it can be based on different hand types - balanced or semi-balanced with a 6+minor, and of varying strengths.
3N just shows that you think you can make 3N, it can be based on different hand types - balanced or semi-balanced with a 6+minor, and of varying strengths.
This looks like a pretty good explanation
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the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
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the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
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Posted 2011-January-04, 12:16
cherdano, on 2011-January-04, 11:56, said:
The advantage of 3N is that it is the single most likely contract,
I would have more confidence in this statement if partner hadn't passed initially.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
-- Bertrand Russell
-- Bertrand Russell
#9
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Posted 2011-January-04, 12:19
3NT shows a good 16- about 20 (could be more) with one or more heart stops (not usually including singleton HA!).
What you would like to do on this hand is show a hand that is strong enough to bid game (making the usual assumption that partner has some values), has a stop in their suit, but is uncertain as to the best game.
Unfortunately you are already at the 3H level which makes it hard to do all of that and still play in 3NT.
Stop the hearts and clubs, so you are 3=3=5=2, and you will get a lot of support for starting with a double, because then you can bid 3NT over 3 of either major from partner, telling him that you have some flexibility for playing in a suit (at this level double-then-3NT doesn't show more high cards than an immediate 3NT, it just says that you were potentially interested in a suit contract).
The higher the level of their pre-empt, the more you are inclined to overcall 3NT, because it gets harder to bid it next round.
Sometimes you want to double with a holding such as Ax beacuse partner might be going to bid 3NT with Qxx, but this is less likely after a vul vs not 3H opening, which is likely to have a very good heart suit.
What you would like to do on this hand is show a hand that is strong enough to bid game (making the usual assumption that partner has some values), has a stop in their suit, but is uncertain as to the best game.
Unfortunately you are already at the 3H level which makes it hard to do all of that and still play in 3NT.
Stop the hearts and clubs, so you are 3=3=5=2, and you will get a lot of support for starting with a double, because then you can bid 3NT over 3 of either major from partner, telling him that you have some flexibility for playing in a suit (at this level double-then-3NT doesn't show more high cards than an immediate 3NT, it just says that you were potentially interested in a suit contract).
The higher the level of their pre-empt, the more you are inclined to overcall 3NT, because it gets harder to bid it next round.
Sometimes you want to double with a holding such as Ax beacuse partner might be going to bid 3NT with Qxx, but this is less likely after a vul vs not 3H opening, which is likely to have a very good heart suit.
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Posted 2011-January-04, 13:18
I disagree with Frances here, 3NT doesn't show anything except the willingness to play 3NT, its not a descriptive bid, but a decision. This decision might be based on a strong balanced hand (16+) or on a trick source with stoppers.
I don't like to bid 3NT with Ax because Ax is a powerful holding playing in a suit contract and you cannot jam the comunications if LHO has 3 cards in 3NT, still Ax is a much better stopper than Kx so 3NT is reasonable for sure, but not my option. Axx would be very different.
I don't like to bid 3NT with Ax because Ax is a powerful holding playing in a suit contract and you cannot jam the comunications if LHO has 3 cards in 3NT, still Ax is a much better stopper than Kx so 3NT is reasonable for sure, but not my option. Axx would be very different.
#11
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Posted 2011-January-05, 09:03
Dbl, I don't like Hamman's eggs on this hand.
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Posted 2011-January-05, 10:52
I've thought about this overnight, I went to sleep bidding 3N and woke up with 3N.
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#13
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Posted 2011-January-05, 11:21
3H just seems like a poor bid to me, especially at this vul, sorry to your partner Frances 
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