[nige1]

nige1, on 2011-January-14, 05:38, said:

Again, my experience differs from Bluejak's. For example, when vulnerable, some players who declare a 12-14 notrump, are more likely to hold 14 than 12. If their opponents ask them, they will specify the subset of flat 12 counts they open when vulnerable. Also, when defenders are are trying to reconstruct your hand, they seem to find an accurate point count to be helpful.

Nevertheless, players often do talk about ranges in the way that Bluejak describes: their ranges include agreed adjustments for shape, texture, and so forth. For disclosure purposes, however, when informing opponents about HCP ranges, I think the laws should insist on the crude truth. For legal purposes, unadorned HCP is a more objective and consistent measure than any adjusted point-count. Opponents are already aware that you won't open *all* hands in the specified range. There will be additional specifications of shape and so on. These can be separately declared and opponents can ask about them.

hrothgar, on 2011-January-14, 12:43, said:

It strikes me that your problem may (fundamentally) be a function of where you play rather than the laws. Simply put, you seem to be surrounded by cheats, thieves, scoundrels, and incompetents.

Brothgar's conclusions can't be drawn from what I wrote. On the contrary, ethical standards and director competence in Scotland are the highest I've encountered. As far as I know, I've never met a bridge-cheat.

[Trinidad]

Cascade, on 2011-January-13, 21:26, said:

Quote

The same way as weak notrumpers do. The strong NT and weak NT are flipped around. The "too strong for a strong NT" is "left over" in both systems.

Rik

I think that is unlikely.

After 1x 2y in a weak NT system 2NT is forcing is a standard agreement.

Therefore with 18-19 we can bid 2NT

1x 2y
2NT 3NT
4NT

and we have the option of making a quantitative raise if responder does not show extra distribution.

That is all very true. But if 2y is already game forcing (as in 2/1 GF), 2NT is obviously also forcing. Therefore, in this respect, there is no difference between 2/1 GF and a weak NT system.

This is even true if a 2/1 is not game forcing, but promisses a rebid, where responder's rebid of his own suit (e.g. 1♥-2♣; 2NT-3♣) is not forcing. 2NT is still forcing. The only requirement is that responder can show an invitational balanced hand without making a 2/1. After a 1M opening these are in the forcing 1NT response (since 2NT is conventional) and after a 1m opening these are simply jumps to 2NT.

Rik