[robkat]

rduran1216, on 2011-July-28, 11:11, said:

here are the two hands

---

Our auction went:

1S 1NT
3C 4C
4S 4NT
5C 6C
all pass

Starting with 2C allows reaching 7S via keycard blackwood at some point very easy.

Starting with 1S is popular nowadays. The proponents of 1S ignore that you will have trouble letting partner know that you have a huge hand.

With spades, I believe the downside of 2C is exaggerated.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

robkat, on 2011-July-28, 12:31, said:

Starting with 2C allows reaching 7S via keycard blackwood at some point very easy.

Let's see your auction.
I don't think it's that easy.
( I don't think the "captain" will be able to count to a sure 13 ) .

[mike777]

2c=2d(random a or k)
2s=3s
4c=4d
4nt=5d(1-4)
5h(qs?)=6c(qs,kc, deny KH)
6d(kd,grand try)=7s


pretty easy.

[Zelandakh]

Or
2C - 2D
2S - 3S
3N (serious) - 4C
4D - 4H
4N - 5C
5D - 6C (this confirms heart cue was shortage)
7S

However, stating from 2C - (3H) might be interesting. It does not seem to be any harder after a 1S start either, though, assuming some methods. eg with transfers
1S - 1N
2H (spades) - 3S
3N (serious) and continue as above.

I am not sure such comparisons help us decide one way or the other for a particular opening on this hand because a single hand is too specific and therefore a poor sample.

My sequence, for the record:-
1C = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any (expecting to treat the hand as an Acol 2 over a negative response)
... - 1S = no 4 card major, GF
1N = relay, usually 18+
... - 2D = clubs, 1-suited
2H = relay
... - 2N = 6-7 clubs, 3 spades, <3 hearts
3C = relay
... - 3D = 3 diamonds, hence 3136 or 3037
4C = puppet to 4D (continuing relays would also have worked but this is simpler)
... - 4D
4N = RKCB for spades, and continue as above.

In all of these sequences, once you find out about the heart shortage it is trivial to count to 13.

[mike777]

Zelandakh, on 2011-July-29, 01:58, said:

Or
2C - 2D
2S - 3S
3N (serious) - 4C
4D - 4H
4N - 5C
5D - 6C (this confirms heart cue was shortage)
7S

However, stating from 2C - (3H) might be interesting. It does not seem to be any harder after a 1S start either, though, assuming some methods. eg with transfers
1S - 1N
2H (spades) - 3S
3N (serious) and continue as above.

I am not sure such comparisons help us decide one way or the other for a particular opening on this hand because a single hand is too specific and therefore a poor sample.

My sequence, for the record:-
1C = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any (expecting to treat the hand as an Acol 2 over a negative response)
... - 1S = no 4 card major, GF
1N = relay, usually 18+
... - 2D = clubs, 1-suited
2H = relay
... - 2N = 6-7 clubs, 3 spades, <3 hearts
3C = relay
... - 3D = 3 diamonds, hence 3136 or 3037
4C = puppet to 4D (continuing relays would also have worked but this is simpler)
... - 4D
4N = RKCB for spades, and continue as above.

In all of these sequences, once you find out about the heart shortage it is trivial to count to 13.

no one playsa 2h=spades.fantasy
-----------


otoh other auctions fantasy...

-----

I fully grant you can invent auctions

[Zelandakh]

I haven't said I play these transfers Mike but they are indeed a perfectly sound method over 1NT and have been suggested by players much better than you or I. They have the disadvantage of not being able to stop in 2C, otherwise they are great. I mentioned them because I felt they would be of particular interest to Don and within the same thread looked like an obvious time to show them off.

As for fantasy auction, my 2C auction is identical to yours except for throwing in a serious 3NT. Looking back at it again now, I think you might be right that this bidding is wrong, a 4H splinter from South instead of the 3S raise seems more descriptive. The auction in my own system is fine. There are really only 2 possibilities for North once South shows a positive response here, one is via RKCB and the other is to stay in relays and make a 5NT queen ask at the end. That is how the system works, why do you feel this is a fantasy?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

rduran1216, on 2011-July-28, 11:11, said:

here are the two hands

---

One point about the Meck Adjunct.
After the 2NT! GF-jump, Meck has the Responder show the limit-raise w/3 cards M with the 3M rebid.....

This is opposite from what I had learned about the 1M - 1NTF, 3C! jump-shift method where
3M = weak bid with as few as 2 cards M and 4M = limit raise with 3 cards -- a hand that would have jumped to 4M if Opener had made a 2-level rebid in a lower ranking suit .

This is possible because with Meck: 1M - 1NTF, 2NT! - 3C! = any hand w/o 3 cards M support... interesting !

Sooo, for the given hand:
1S - 1NTF
2NT! - 3S! = limit w/3

...and we are at the same point as Zel's or Mike's auction.

( I like the "inference" of the Ht-singleton in Zel's "serious"/cuebidding auction .
It's that "shortness" knowledge needed for the Grand to be bid ) .

[xxhong]

I have played this transfer structure since 2005.

Zelandakh, on 2011-July-28, 12:15, said:

Well you could play transfers and the MA...
For example:-
1S - 1NT
========
2C = diamonds, or natural 2NT bid
2D = hearts
2H = 1-suited
2S = 4+ clubs, min
2N = art GF
3C = 4+ clubs, INV
3DH = 5+ clubs, shortage, GF
3S = 5+ clubs, 6+ spades, GF

Transferring and making a GF 3rd bid would show 5-5, going via 2NT only 5-4. Since you have gained so much extra space by using transfers I am sure you can further work out how to subcategorise 6-4, etc but I have not worked through enough detail on this yet myself. The disadvantage is not being able to stop in 2C if Responder is broke with (4)5 clubs. Nonetheless, I think there's plenty for you to work with here!

[tolvyrj]

What i like to do is open with 1♠, but if we assume just basic 2/1 without any gadgets; then i choose 2♣ risk of loosing a game is too big. And if prd takes a very rosie wiew after that and thrust us to a no so highly presentage slam... well i have sixth ♠ card and control in every suit to back me up so i shld have some play in any case.
And if the worst happens cause my opening choice i humbly apologized from my prd.

[benlessard]

As far as I know im probably the first player to play transfer rebid by opener. My system is based on it.

After 1H we play 1S is a relay wich give

1Nt=clubs
2C=D
2D=6H
2H= 5H+4S 12-14

2S+ H+S GF
The transfers are 12-14 or 18-22


hands that are opened by a strong club

15-17 range
strong balanced hands with 5M but not with 6M.
Near or + GF hands (great 21+)

Hands that are opened 1M

11-14 or 18-22 unbalanced