[mgoetze]

---

I have since figured out that I'm apparently supposed to bid 2NT. But why can't GIB just pass 3♣?

[georgi]

Or probably bid 3♥ as best probable contract after you get over 2NT.

[mgoetze]

georgi, on 2011-August-16, 12:08, said:

Or probably bid 3♥ as best probable contract after you get over 2NT.

I don't see why. We almost certainly have a 4-3 fit in hearts. We might also have a 4-3 fit in clubs, but then again, it might be a 5-3 fit.

[gwnn]

Because you confused him.

[georgi]

mgoetze, on 2011-August-16, 13:24, said:

I don't see why. We almost certainly have a 4-3 fit in hearts. We might also have a 4-3 fit in clubs, but then again, it might be a 5-3 fit.

4-3 in clubs is certain fit, so 4-3 in hearts, GIB sees them both.

But it would be unlikely 1NT to be opened with 2♠4♥2♦5♣, so GIB could rely on common shape, not extraordinary like 2425 as exception or 1435 or 1426 as most unexpected which GIB won't but human might.

On the other hand, 3♠ is not the option North should consider at all, so Pass on 3♣ or 3♥ look most appropriate options.

[mike777]

mgoetze, on 2011-August-16, 11:37, said:

---

I have since figured out that I'm apparently supposed to bid 2NT. But why can't GIB just pass 3♣?

Your 3c bid confused GIB, I think it confuses most of us.

why bid 3c when pard could be 22 or worse in your suits?

I would worry more about trying to bid your hand right rather than complain about partners bidding.

[mgoetze]

mike777, on 2011-August-16, 15:34, said:

why bid 3c when pard could be 22 or worse in your suits?

So you're saying partner might have 42x2 distribution or so. Hm, sounds like I'll be happy to play 3♦ for most values of x. Sorry for confusing you with my woefully inadequate bidding, though.

[mike777]

No in fact you deleted what my main point was...plse quote in full and not out of context, thank you.

Your bid confused GIB.

I dont know why you are so eager to play in a 4-3 at the 3 level or 5-3 d suit at the 3 level but ok....

[Bbradley62]

I do think 2N is clear over 2S, but I wonder why the provided description of 3♣ includes "2-5S", and whether it affects North's bidding. If South must have 4C, 2D and 4H, he cannot have more than 3S.

[barmar]

Once you bid past 2NT, you're in a game forcing auction. GIB invited game, and the only ways to decline the invitation are pass (if you have 4 spades) and 2NT (if you don't). I'm not sure why GIB bid 3♠, but it didn't think you could pass it.

[mgoetze]

barmar, on 2011-August-16, 23:35, said:

Once you bid past 2NT, you're in a game forcing auction.

Hm, that wasn't clear to me from the description of 3♣.

[georgi]

over 2♠ if you have bid 2NT would be: -- 2-5 C; 2-5 D; 4-5 H; 2-3 S; 15+ HCP; 15- total points

while 3♣/3♦ still don't limit the TP - -- 4-5 C / 4-5 D; 4-5 H; 2-5 S; 15-17 HCP; 18- total points

That likely is the fact that North feels like you still can have a game, so should be somekind forcing.

It could bid even 3NT if counts that as some maximum.

[barmar]

mgoetze, on 2011-August-17, 02:06, said:

Hm, that wasn't clear to me from the description of 3♣.

It's "just bridge".

When you play 4-way transfers, so that a 2NT response is a transfer rather than an invitation, responder has to go through Stayman to invite. And in general, whenever partner invites, and you go past the safe level, you're accepting the invitation.

In the case of using Stayman to invite, there are a number of ways it can go:

1NT-2♣-2♦-2NT - Responder might not have any 4-card major.
1NT-2♣-2♠-2NT - Responder has <4 ♠, and might not have 4 ♥.
1NT-2♣-2♥-2NT - Responder has <4 ♠ and <4 ♥.
1NT-2♣-2♥-2♠ - Responder has <3 ♥ and exactly 4 ♠

The last sequence is how you find your spade fit if opener is 4-4 in the majors. Opener is supposed to respond 2♥ to Stayman with this shape.

Responder can never have a 5-card major in any of these sequences, because he would either have transferred or bid Stayman with the intent of using Smolen.

[gwnn]

Maybe 3♣ could be a 2236 14 count. Definitely not a 4 card suit. No need to look for a minor suit partscore in a 4-4.

This post has been edited by gwnn: 2011-August-17, 11:44

[helene_t]

maybe GIB interprets 3♣ as a trial bid with spade fit. I know that is now how the bid is defined but I think we have seen before that the gib partner's interpretation of a bid can be different from the explanation given by the gib bidder.