[Fluffy]

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[TWO4BRIDGE]

I don't play the Big Club, but why the 3♥! bid ?
Why not show one of your suits at this juncture ... like 2♠ .

[quiddity]

Seems like the cuebid should suggest a four-card spade suit since East can handle some of the other shapes with a responsive double.

[whereagles]

2/3♠ by responder would have been simple.

[Fluffy]

Please, note that the context is 0-7 afer 1♦. Bidding 2♠ with more than a maximum makes no sense at all.

For those unfamiliar to big club, this is should be very similar to a bidding like pass-(1♥)-X-(2♥) except that lebensohl is not in play (and strenght ranges are slightly different)

[Free]

3♥ is a strange call imo, just bid 3♠ after partner's takeout (which already suggests ♠).

Fluffy has been gone quite a while I guess, he didn't remember the non-natural forum.

[nige1]

IMO, neither Fluffy nor his partner did much wrong but, if anything, East is more to blame than West...
- Fit-searching starts at an uncomfortable level because of opponents' interference and East's systemic 3♥ cue-bid. Hence...
- West could bid 3♠ over 3♥ because of the cramped auction.
- East could bid 4♠ over 4♣, wisely treating the poor ♦ suit as four-cards, in a potential slam auction.
- West could bid a natural 4♠ over 4♦. East is limited by his 1♦ reply and West has little to spare for his 1♣ opener. Unfortunately East will treat 4♠ as forcing so this is unlikely to help.
- East could bid 4♠ over 4♥. In context, West can work out that this as natural and non-forcing, not a cue-bid.
- Without a ♠ fit, they hope to subside in a minor .

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[Cyberyeti]

Fluffy, on 2011-August-24, 02:59, said:

Please, note that the context is 0-7 afer 1♦. Bidding 2♠ with more than a maximum makes no sense at all.

For those unfamiliar to big club, this is should be very similar to a bidding like pass-(1♥)-X-(2♥) except that lebensohl is not in play (and strenght ranges are slightly different)

This is part of your problem, what is 2N by responder instead of 3♥ ? without your comment I would have assumed Lebensohl automatically and bid 3♥ (via 2N or not depending on style) as GF 4 spades no heart stop. Under normal circumstances I'd give a positive with an AK treating that as 8, but I can see why you wouldn't want to bid 2♦.

Would 3♠ by opener over 3♥ show only 4 as he might have bid 1♠ rather than X with 5 ? In this case I think it's the right bid.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

[ Deleted because incorrect ] .

See post # 15 .

[whereagles]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-August-24, 06:47, said:

East can't overcall 2♥ with 2♠ since that would show 5 cards.

Why not? Pard's dbl already implied 4 spades, no?

[the_clown]

How about 4♥. Should be splinter with ♠ fit and shows maximum. Cant think of a better discription of the hand. 3NT cannot be right when p cannot bid 1NT. If opener can have a very strong balanced hand for his double (22-23), I would bid X responsive and raise 2NT to 3NT, over 2♠ or 3♦, I am bidding 4♥, over 3♣, 3♥, planning to raise p to game whatever he bids.

[Fluffy]

whereagles, on 2011-August-24, 07:42, said:

Why not? Pard's dbl already implied 4 spades, no?

suggests, but doesn't promise, 23 balanced will also take out double, and perhaps there is some other rare hands avaible. Also hands with 3 spades, 2 hearts and some extras will double.

[gwnn]

I think 3♥ should be GF and opener should first show spades if he has them.

I remember we missed a spade fit too in somewhat different circumstances:

1♣*-(3♥)-x-p *-16+
4♣-p-p-p, opener being 4-6 in the black suits

and the consensus on the forums was that double sohuld be game forcing but opener should bid spades first. The two situations are not equivalent but we have the same amount of room to sort out strain and level.

[xxhong]

I don't see why you can't bid 2C over 1H, which is very natural. Double should be reserved for hands without a natural bid.

Fluffy, on 2011-August-23, 16:59, said:

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[TWO4BRIDGE]

Fluffy, on 2011-August-23, 16:59, said:

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My post #9 was incorrect.
West's DBL is a T/O for ♥ ...( West/East's first bids were not "real" suit bids ) ... ostensibly showing ♠ but not necessarily guaranteeing 4 cards.

Soo, East can bid 2S over 2H ... showing 4 cards and implying the upper end of his 1D! artificial weak initial response. If East DBLed ( over 2H ) , I would interpret it as "Responsive" -- only showing the minors, and denying ♠.

[whereagles]

Fluffy, on 2011-August-24, 10:44, said:

suggests, but doesn't promise, 23 balanced will also take out double, and perhaps there is some other rare hands avaible. Also hands with 3 spades, 2 hearts and some extras will double.

That's all very fine, but if you start conjecturing too much, it's just a matter of time until a mix up occurs.

In other words, opener may not have 4 spades but if he indeed hasn't got them, he'll have some rebid programmed. It's just like replying to a normal take out dbl over a natural 1x. You don't always have 4 spades when you dbl 1♥ but that doesn't stop responder bid his 4-card spade, does it? Why should this situation be any different?

[Fluffy]

His rebid might not be programmed over 4♠ , and bidding anything less than game with this card is something I won't even begin to think about. People are suggesting 2♠ when 3♠ is already ridicoulous IMO.

[whereagles]

huh? 4♠ is what you bid with a max AND 5 spades. What can 3♠ mean but a max and 4 spades or slightly sub-max and 5 spades???