[BunnyGo]

You're playing with a regular partner, but have no specific agreements concerning serious, or frivolous, or any other kind of special 3NT bid.

In first seat with

void, A8652, AKQT6, 543

you begin the auction:

1♥-(1♠)-2♠-(P)
3♠-(P)-3NT

First, what is 3♠ here. Is it a splinter? A cue-bid? A stopper ask for NT?

If 3♠ is a one of the first two possibilities (since hearts has been set as trump) what is 3NT?


The auction continued:

1♥-(1♠)-2♠-(P)
3♠-(P)-3NT-(P)
4♦-(P)-4♥-AP

Partner had AKQ3, T43, 85, Q876

An unfortunate spot when it started AK of clubs, club ruff, and then two more heart losers in addition.

All (edit: constructive) comments and suggestions are welcome.

[cherdano]

In competition I would always play 3NT as natural. It's nice to avoid the likely ruff when you have KQJx of RHO's suit.
I would just take 3♠ as a cuebid announcing slam interest. On the actual hand I would bid 3♦ instead.

[jmcw]

Regardless of an agreed or implied Major fit, 3NT should be natural UNLESS you have specifically agreed otherwise.
With a Major suit fit, I expect very few would play a cue in the opponents suit as an attempt to get to 3NT, far more useful is to play it as a cuebd will slam intentions.

[jdeegan]

It is almost axiomatic that if both you AND your partner misbid, you will end up in a hopeless contract. Partner's 2♠ was horrible. Your failure to bid 3♦ was silly. Keep trying, though. The game is complicated, but you will learn it.

[BunnyGo]

jdeegan, on 2011-August-31, 10:00, said:

It is almost axiomatic that if both you AND your partner misbid, you will end up in a hopeless contract. Partner's 2♠ was horrible. Your failure to bid 3♦ was silly. Keep trying, though. The game is complicated, but you will learn it.

While I agree that 3♦ would probably have been the better bid, after 2♠ is my hand really stopping short of 4♥?

[wyman]

jdeegan, on 2011-August-31, 10:00, said:

Partner's 2♠ was horrible.

Poll?

This is not a style where a cue promises 4 trumps.

[aguahombre]

jdeegan, on 2011-August-31, 10:00, said:

It is almost axiomatic that if both you AND your partner misbid, you will end up in a hopeless contract. Partner's 2♠ was horrible. Your failure to bid 3♦ was silly. Keep trying, though. The game is complicated, but you will learn it.

The 2♠ response, judging the hand to be worth a limit raise in hearts doesn't seem to be such a horrible misbid. After opener's 3D rebid, 3NT should be a suggestion to play 3NT absent any other agreements. When Opener bid 3S instead of 3D, he muddied things up.

Results on this hand are not really on point; the question seems to be what 3NT means. It means something different when partner bids naturally than when partner cues their suit.

[wyman]

aguahombre, on 2011-August-31, 11:57, said:

The 2♠ response, judging the hand to be worth a limit raise in hearts doesn't seem to be such a horrible misbid.

Sometimes opener has 6+ hearts. Sometimes opps have 5 cashing diamonds. And 2S doesn't preclude OP's side from playing 3N imo, so I'm wondering what he wants partner to do. Bid 3N?

Because apparently supporting partner and giving a rough idea of hand strength was bad enough to be called horrible, along with a cute little "don't worry, you'll be as good as I am someday..."

Just curious if there's unanimity among experts on this.

[JLOGIC]

cherdano, on 2011-August-31, 08:27, said:

In competition I would always play 3NT as natural.

This!

Agree that 3D over 2S would be a much better bid, you might belong in diamonds to begin with, and you are starting to describe your hand to partner.

Also, I like 2S. With KJTx or something and more outside values I would be much more inclined to just bid NT. AKQ of spades is useful in hearts, and leaves us not much outside.

[benlessard]

3Nt is to play in competition. sometimes its to rightside the contract, sometimes is to avoid ruffs, sometimes you cant ruff anything and 9 tricks is the limit.

2S is completly normal, i dont see why anyone would think its a bad bid. Agree with justin with defense values like kjtx its different but here its 3 tricks + ruffing power in D.

i like to play that 3S show exactly a void (im pretty convinced that its a superior treatment). If you play that 3S can be a stiff then 3D is the proper bid. I expect less than 1% of good pairs can stop in 3Nt.

[JLOGIC]

Ben, if 3S shows a void(!), of course you should pass 3N with bad trumps and a side AKQTx, is it really even debatable? Even if 3S could be a stiff or a void, again you should clearly pass partners 3N. You have ace empty of trumps and a side near-solid suit.

You could probably argue if 3S shows shortness then 3N should not be natural, especially if you won't pass with this hand.

Personally I think

1H (1S) 2S (p)
3D (p) 3N ap is a very good auction, and not all that double dummy.

[benlessard]

JLOGIC, on 2011-August-31, 12:39, said:

Ben, if 3S shows a void(!), of course you should pass 3N with bad trumps and a side AKQTx, is it really even debatable? Even if 3S could be a stiff or a void, again you should clearly pass partners 3N. You have ace empty of trumps and a side near-solid suit.

You could probably argue if 3S shows shortness then 3N should not be natural, especially if you won't pass with this hand.

Personally I think

1H (1S) 2S (p)
3D (p) 3N ap is a very good auction, and not all that double dummy.

Over 3S show void we respond keycard or soff with wasted values so we are not able to stop in 3Nt. My point was just that for me 3S showing 0 or 1 is akward imo. Its akward both for slam bidding and for reaching the best game. Most of the time bidding a minor work better, even with a 1633 it doesnt bother me to bid 3C. It allow partner more space.

I dont think ill be able to pass 3Nt if i bid 3D--3nt. Maybe i should try to pass more often when my trumps are not great.

[JLOGIC]

benlessard, on 2011-August-31, 13:00, said:

Maybe i should try to pass more often when my trumps are not great.

Agree, especially with a near-solid side suit.