[inquiry]

1H - 1S
2H - 3D
4C

Once again, 1S showed spades, 2H was essentially minimum with hearts, NF, and 3D was new minor forcing (make your own rules at to rather or not it promised any specific number of diamonds at a minimum).

Ben

[Gerben47]

Control bid with 3-card ♠-support, probably short ♣.

[pclayton]

If Ben is suggesting this be a splinter; I'm on board. Seems this is a similar auction to 1♦ - 2♦ - 3♣ which I play as a splinter.

[inquiry]

pclayton, on Oct 7 2004, 11:09 AM, said:

If Ben is suggesting this be a splinter; I'm on board. Seems this is a similar auction to 1♦ - 2♦ - 3♣ which I play as a splinter.

Well, I don't actually suggest anything when I pose a question. Bridge is a wonderful game and we can all have different meanings for bids like this as long as our partners know what we mean, we will probably do ok....

But, here is my thought on this one. First, it clearly isn't clubs... you would bid 3NT or at the very least if clubs are so good you would have bid 2C over 1S. So I think it is a singleton club (or void I guess).... So the question, liek the other poll where opener jumps to 4D over 3C, is if this is a splinter, what does opener promise to go along with the splinter. Diamond support? Three cards spade support? A great self-supporting heart suit?

I think this is something each partnership has to decide for themselves. For me, this is a self-supporting heart suit (one that can play in slam opposite a small singleton), and short club. Exactly the same type of hand I would jump to 4♦ over responders 3♣ rebid.... btw.

Ben

[Fluffy]

I am this time not sure it is a splinter, but again it promises long ♥, and it is the fit.

[Flame]

Diamond fit and club control, if you have spade 3 card then you should bid 3sp.

[luke warm]

i can't see this being a splinter, after all i think opener has a stiff (or void) spade... reason is, after 3D he'd bid 3S with a minimum and 2 spades, i think... so i believe his hand is 5=0=4=4 and he's showing a club suit...

it's possible, maybe even more likely, that 4C shows a club control and diamond fit... maybe Kxx in a 5=1=4=3 hand, but i don't know

[inquiry]

luke warm, on Oct 7 2004, 08:53 PM, said:

i can't see this being a splinter, after all i think opener has a stiff (or void) spade... reason is, after 3D he'd bid 3S with a minimum and 2 spades, i think... so i believe his hand is 5=0=4=4 and he's showing a club suit...

it's possible, maybe even more likely, that 4C shows a club control and diamond fit... maybe Kxx in a 5=1=4=3 hand, but i don't know

Well, Jimmy, let me tell you why for me, it can't be diamond fit and a club control (in the form of club king or ace). As opener you ahve a minimum hand (else why 2H), especially if holding four diamonds. If you agree with that logic, then the rest is simple. Partner didn't necessarily want to commit you to a contact beyond 3NT when he bid 3D. To bid beyond 3NT with a minimum hand and a club control EVEN IF YOU HAVE a diamond fit, seems a losing strategy in my mind. Thus, the hand you describe, I will rebid 3Nt.

Once you decide that you will not bid beyond 3NT with a modest diamond fit and a club stopper, that shortens the options for the meaning of 4♣, AT least that is something for you to think on...

Ben

[the hog]

For me this would be the same hand I posted on the 4C question, this time with the minors reversed.

[Fluffy]

Oh well, at least nobody suggested this is 4th suit forcing, we are improving :-D

[inquiry]

Fluffy, on Oct 8 2004, 07:15 AM, said:

Oh well, at least nobody suggested this is 4th suit forcing, we are improving :-D

This is an interesting comment, of course it is not fourth suit forcing.. but that raises an interesting question. How many partners use fourth suit by OPENER as a conventional fouirth-suit forcing as opposed to just fourht suit by responder?

[Fluffy]

I´ve said a couple of times before, but I am happy to repeat any time its neccesary , you nned to keep your conventions under control:

4th suit forcing is a convention that hapens when opener bids 2 suits and responder has bid a suit at first round, and next bids the unbid suit at the lowest level (I am not sure of the 1♠-2♥-3♦-4♣ auction, probably the only exception). Given said that, there is no other situation when it comes, so there is no way in wich opener can use it.

[helium]

sure it isnt 4sf? i think it is:))))

no club controll and di fit for me:)

[inquiry]

helium, on Oct 10 2004, 01:02 PM, said:

sure it isnt 4sf? i think it is:))))

no club controll and di fit for me:)

Traditionally, Fourth suit forcing is a bid by the responder of the only unbid suit at his second turn is a waiting move and promises nothing about the suit itself.

I have no doubt 4♣ on this auctin is forcing, but as a watiing move and seeking more information? No way. This is clearly not a "fourth suit forcing" situation.

Ben

[helium]

inquiry, on Oct 10 2004, 12:54 PM, said:

helium, on Oct 10 2004, 01:02 PM, said:

sure it isnt 4sf? i think it is:))))

no club controll and di fit for me:)

Traditionally, Fourth suit forcing is a bid by the responder of the only unbid suit at his second turn is a waiting move and promises nothing about the suit itself.

I have no doubt 4♣ on this auctin is forcing, but as a watiing move and seeking more information? No way. This is clearly not a "fourth suit forcing" situation.

Ben

hehe sry if u dint see the ironi in my post, i really dont think its 4sf:))

[henrik_r]

On the previous poll I voted for the club support splinter, but another playable solution would be "pick-a-game" with a maximum for 2♥, i.e.

♠Hx, a good (self-supporting) suit 6+♥ and 4 card support in the minor

The reasoning being, that it should show a hand where 3NT is not a suitable contract, even if the 3minor bid was a NT probe.

Regards, Henrik