[luke warm]

pclayton, on Oct 11 2004, 05:19 AM, said:

Over 2♠, in my finely-tuned partnership (using Rubens / Robson stuff); I will know if partner has:

1. A weak 3 card raise. (I'll pass and hope to beat it with a heart out, or at least get a better score than those that didn't overcall)

2. A strong 3 card raise (I'll double to tell pard its our hand. He'll pull with a stiff spade usually).

3. A really strong 3 card raise (I'm sawing off 2♠ and expecting to get rich)

4. Clubs (not sure what I'll do over 2♠)

All hands with 4 card support make THEM decide at the 3 level; either 3♥ (weakish - I'll play 3♥ or expect to beat 3♠) or 2N (mixed - I'm doubling 3♠) or 3♦ (limit - probably bidding game I guess, not sure).

How can we be worse off if we didn't overcall 1♥?

i obviously don't know whether or not pass is better than 1h here, i'm just saying what i'd do... but on your list, i don't understand a few things... for example:
#1 "A weak 3 card raise. (I'll pass and hope to beat it with a heart out, or at least get a better score than those that didn't overcall)"

assuming ops were always gonna be in 2s, overcall or not, this seems to be based entirely on the lead of a heart, correct? maybe that will work, i don't know... that's why i said in my first post that i'd be more likely to overcall a 4 card suit with A, Q or K,Q or A,K than A,J; and

"How can we be worse off if we didn't overcall 1♥?"

i don't know... declarer may misguess the defense, maybe... i don't know what your p'ship uses to show your #'s 2 and 3 above, but it seems that the ops would know it's your hand also... course they may not care

[helene_t]

Pass. If p can't double (assuming LHO bids 1M or passes) I want to defend. If LHO bids 1NT I will regret it, but 1♥ is impractical with this bad suit. Non-vuln I might double.

[Chamaco]

Double.
If pard bids 2C he is likely to have 5 cards and we'll play in the 5-2 fit.

I am not happy with double but:
1) passing is likely to bring a lost MP partscore battle. Partner will be under too much pressure, it s almost always better to try to give the values, at the cost of being somewhat offshape in the minor;
2) I like to make a 4 card overcall if the suit has 2 of the top 3 honors, AJTx seems to mee too weak

The closest other alternative to me is reevaluate the 14 hcp to 15 hcp (all prime values) and bid NT.
Actually the K/R hand evaluator evaluates this hand 14.95.
I prefer 1NT to both 1H and pas.

[Chamaco]

EricK, on Oct 11 2004, 11:26 AM, said:

Is this an offensively oriented hand?

It looks like a 8-loser balanced hand with some strength in RHO's suit.

The hand is not 8 losers.
Actually, with diamonds bid on the right, AJxx is not a 2 loser, closer to 1.5/1.75 loser suit:
And in H, AJTx is closer to a 1.25 loser suit (double finesse, very likely to score either the J or the ten).
On the whole, it is reasonable to assume that at least some finesse thru opener will work, bringing the hand to a 7 losers hand, which is considered by many non-Roth-Stone adepts a full opening hand .

[Gerben47]

Thanks for the responses. I think pass is defenitely out and so is 1NT, leaves 1♥ and dbl.

This was played in a tournament and all four options were chosen at least once. The most interesting auction developed after dbl:

1♦ dbl 1♥ dbl
2♣ pass 2♦ 2♠
3♦

Dbl of 1♥ was penalty, but what do 2 alternative bids 2♦ and 2♥ mean here (instead of 2nd dbl). Both natural or just one of them?

Anyway, what do you think the full hand is and what do you bid now?

[inquiry]

You have lost your rudder. Your partner can't bid intellegently after your double as he will never suspect you with four sound diamonds. Now you are in a guessing game. I still think 1♥ overcall is best, but I will play the game with an incorrect takeout double instead.

What did LHO have for his heart bid (a complete heart psyche? Four crappy hearts? Four modest hearts? A totally bust hand and partner has good stuff? Scattered values and partner was just competiting?).

Partner seems to have a lot of hearts and spades.. say 4-4 at least. LHO took a preference to diamonds, but that might be false, but will not be TOO FALSE.. say if partner had two diamonds, then they have landed in their 7 card diamond suit instead of their 8 card club suit. It is possible if RHO opened 1D on 4♦-5♣.

I would never be in this sorry situation... but here are your choices.

• decide is a pass here by you forcing? Even if it is forcing do you want to invite your partener to bid on?
  
• decide if a double by you here is optional, penatly or something else
  
• make the bid that is most likely to get you in the least amount of trouble with your current partner.
  
• decide how much stregnth a 3♥ bid by you shows now.

Well, first, I think pass is probably not forcing. That is good news/bad news, because it suggest you can pass "safely" and if partner lets them play you have probably bid enough (although you have missed doubling them). But on the other hand, you have missed your chance for +100 or +200 for 3♦X.

For me, after my double of 1♦ and partner having bid both majors (the double of 1♥ showing hearts), a double of 3♦ by me is now optional (all my doubles are for takeout until a fit has been found, but in theory on this auction, we have found a fit, as i must have one of the majors). So I can double 3♦, but what are the chances my partner with a diamond void or singleton is going to stand for that after my initial takeout double and pass over 2♣? I think the odds are basically zero, as he will never imagine four diamonds in my hand.

So, at matchpoint a pass is unlikely to score well, since they are going down, but probably not enough. A double is likely to get your partner to rebid something in a major.. hopefully in hearts if he has only 4 spades.

So, pass and double here both seemed doomed to me (double only because partenr will not sit for it). So that leaves 3NT and 3/4 ♥ as the only reasonable alternatives. We can ruff a few diamonds in dummy (maybe three), we can win club ace, and ruff a club for sure, but spades honors are probably poorly placed with EAST sitting behind partners values in that suit. I doubt I can stand club leads, so 3NT is out. So, I am backed into bidding 3♥ here, and I am not sure if I want partner to pass it or raise to game.

My guess at the hands is:

---

RHO didn't bid 1♠ over 1♥ doubled, so does not have four spades, LHO took preference back to diamonds, so must have at least 3. If partner had 5♠ and 4♥, he would have showed spades instead of messing around with doubling 1♥, partner may have five hearts however. West is unlikely to have enough diamnods to be totatly psyching 1♥ on extreme shortness (since I have 4 diamonds), so I think he has four of them, they maynot be this good, as partner will have at least one of the two missing heart honors.

[junyi_zhu]

EricK, on Oct 11 2004, 11:26 AM, said:

junyi_zhu, on Oct 11 2004, 09:02 AM, said:

Gerben47, on Oct 10 2004, 02:10 PM, said:

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> East </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> N/S </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> MP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> 852 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> AJT2 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> AJ74 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> A2 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

RHO opens 1♦, pick your poison!
1NT would be 15 - 18 balanced + stopper.

easy 1H and the only choice in my humble opinion. If you always pass with this kind of hands, your partner needs to balance very aggressively and even if he balances aggressively, you still may not catch up and you may often suffer a huge penalty if you balance too aggressively. Basically, in my idea, one should never pass an offensive oriented opening hand when he has a simple overcall at one level.

Is this an offensively oriented hand?

It looks like a 8-loser balanced hand with some strength in RHO's suit.

If partner is always going to raise to 2♥ on xxx, and to 3♥ on xxxx, then I am not sure I want to bid this one immediately.

Eric

It's about a 7 losers hand because you have excellent controls and DJ which has some plus value over a 1D opener. You have 3 + 1+2+2 - 1 losers. Loser count has to consider about the adjustment of controls, otherwise, it's no accurate.