Help
New-ish partner and I had this start to the auction the other day, and debated possible uses:
1. Extension of support X to show 3 vs. 4+ support?
2. Modified extension of support X to show 2 (with honor) vs. 3+ support?
3. Something else?
Suggestions and advice welcome...including pointers to the past threads I'm sure must exist on this.
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1m-(1S)-2H-(2S)-X Best use of X here?
#1
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Posted 2011-December-15, 21:39
#2
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Posted 2011-December-15, 21:57
bd71, on 2011-December-15, 21:39, said:
New-ish partner and I had this start to the auction the other day, and debated possible uses:
1. Extension of support X to show 3 vs. 4+ support?
2. Modified extension of support X to show 2 (with honor) vs. 3+ support?
3. Something else?
Suggestions and advice welcome...including pointers to the past threads I'm sure must exist on this.
1. Extension of support X to show 3 vs. 4+ support?
2. Modified extension of support X to show 2 (with honor) vs. 3+ support?
3. Something else?
Suggestions and advice welcome...including pointers to the past threads I'm sure must exist on this.
Takeout. Will frequently have Hx in partner's suit.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
#3
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Posted 2011-December-15, 22:25
Missed the opening 1m bid.. disregard.
Not fond of "takeout" definition, when there is only one suit left. Perhaps it could be used in conjunction with Good/bad, to be prepared for futher competition in spades by the opps. I.E., 2NT for a merely competitive single suiter in diamonds, and double for a diamond/club two-suiter.
That would free up 3D and 3C for stronger opening bids. Hands with heart support can raise hearts, and hands with no direction at all don't have to bid at all.
Not fond of "takeout" definition, when there is only one suit left. Perhaps it could be used in conjunction with Good/bad, to be prepared for futher competition in spades by the opps. I.E., 2NT for a merely competitive single suiter in diamonds, and double for a diamond/club two-suiter.
That would free up 3D and 3C for stronger opening bids. Hands with heart support can raise hearts, and hands with no direction at all don't have to bid at all.
This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2011-December-15, 22:46
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#4
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Posted 2011-December-15, 23:35
Door #2 was the choice of my regular partner in Alaska and me. We used support-ish doubles quite extensively to show Hx opposite a 5+ suit, both in auctions like this one and as advancer. That said, I have yet to run across anybody else playing it that way. I am excited to see it even mentioned here.
#5
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Posted 2011-December-16, 00:09
#1 doesn't make any sense. Partner shows 5+♥, why would we show support without raising?
#2 is reasonable, although you can also raise with 3 card support
#3 I'd use it as takeout, which basically means at least 2 places to play. In many cases you'll have ♥Hx in support, but you can also have a minimum hand with 5-5m for example.
#2 is reasonable, although you can also raise with 3 card support
#3 I'd use it as takeout, which basically means at least 2 places to play. In many cases you'll have ♥Hx in support, but you can also have a minimum hand with 5-5m for example.
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#6
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Posted 2011-December-16, 02:42
Generally after the opponents have bid and raised and we have only had one bid then takeout is a useful agreement.
As a matter of theory our bidding space is valuable it makes sense to use the cheapest (positive) call in a flexible way.
On this auction we have a number of objectives:
1. We might want to compete - 3m and 3♣ (over 1♦) to show a hand with some extra distribution are needed.
2. We might want to explore for no trumps (or an alternative fit)
3. We may have a hand with extra strength but that does not want to go past 3NT whilst still allowing partner to show some extra distribution
As a matter of theory our bidding space is valuable it makes sense to use the cheapest (positive) call in a flexible way.
On this auction we have a number of objectives:
1. We might want to compete - 3m and 3♣ (over 1♦) to show a hand with some extra distribution are needed.
2. We might want to explore for no trumps (or an alternative fit)
3. We may have a hand with extra strength but that does not want to go past 3NT whilst still allowing partner to show some extra distribution
Wayne Burrows
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Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#7
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Posted 2011-December-16, 08:26
I've asked a few people this question, and the most common answer has been "takeout, almost always Hx or xxx in hearts." My most recent long-term partners, with whom I was playing roughly the same system, said
"penalty -- opener can raise with heart support or bid 3C/D" with the caveat "IMH(AI)O -- (always incorrect)" and
"implies but doesn't guarantee 3 hearts. i know some ppl do play this as supp, some play it as Hx, and I play 1m (1h) 1s (2x) x as supp, makes some sense to me here too, but no firm agreement. "
[Heh, good to know we're all on the same page! I'd have been in the "takeout" camp, likely 2254 fwiw.]
Personally, I've always been in the "why do we need a supp X with a 5-3 fit?" camp, but distinguishing can probably aid in making the impending 4- or 5-level decisions, so I can see the value.
"penalty -- opener can raise with heart support or bid 3C/D" with the caveat "IMH(AI)O -- (always incorrect)" and
"implies but doesn't guarantee 3 hearts. i know some ppl do play this as supp, some play it as Hx, and I play 1m (1h) 1s (2x) x as supp, makes some sense to me here too, but no firm agreement. "
[Heh, good to know we're all on the same page! I'd have been in the "takeout" camp, likely 2254 fwiw.]
Personally, I've always been in the "why do we need a supp X with a 5-3 fit?" camp, but distinguishing can probably aid in making the impending 4- or 5-level decisions, so I can see the value.
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#8
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Posted 2011-December-16, 12:49
X = Competitive: “I want to compete further but I am not sure what to bid ” ( Richard Pavlicek ) .
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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Posted 2011-December-17, 15:02
Free, on 2011-December-16, 00:09, said:
#3 I'd use it as takeout, which basically means at least 2 places to play. In many cases you'll have ♥Hx in support, but you can also have a minimum hand with 5-5m for example.
Minimum and with 5-5 you would open 1♦, and bid 3♣ here?
Yehudit Hasin
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"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
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Posted 2011-December-18, 09:03
bd71, on 2011-December-15, 21:39, said:
New-ish partner and I had this start to the auction the other day, and debated possible uses:
1. Extension of support X to show 3 vs. 4+ support?
2. Modified extension of support X to show 2 (with honor) vs. 3+ support?
3. Something else?
Suggestions and advice welcome...including pointers to the past threads I'm sure must exist on this.
1. Extension of support X to show 3 vs. 4+ support?
2. Modified extension of support X to show 2 (with honor) vs. 3+ support?
3. Something else?
Suggestions and advice welcome...including pointers to the past threads I'm sure must exist on this.
♥♥♥
At least, tell us what you agreed with partner: system ?...
♥♥♥
♥Bob Herreman ♥
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