[TWO4BRIDGE]

2/1 GF
1M - ( p ) - 2M = 8,9 hcp exact with 3 card support ...

but what are the requirements with a DBL overcall ?

1M - ( X ) - 2M = again, 3 card support but hcp range = ??

Edit: Partner opens 1S....
Would you raise to 2S ( after a DBL ) with:
A x x
x x x
J 9 x x x
x x

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2012-January-08, 21:18

[the hog]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-January-08, 21:10, said:

2/1 GF
1M - ( p ) - 2M = 8,9 hcp exact with 3 card support ...

but what are the requirements with a DBL overcall ?

1M - ( X ) - 2M = again, 3 card support but hcp range = ??

Edit: Partner opens 1S....
Would you raise to 2S ( after a DBL ) with:
A x x
x x x
J 9 x x x
x x

Well, I certainly would, however I do play transfer overcalls after a x. So for me, 2H would be a good S raise, and 2S is a worse S raise.

[jillybean]

yes, I would raise to 2♠ and I would on Axx.

[Siegmund]

The posted hand is close to my minimum. There are some number of shapely 4s and 5s I will raise to 2M on in comp, especially if NV. Most 9-loser hands. Very rare for me to have 10 losers and less than 6. The upper limit is still around 9.

I do have to add that, even playing single raise constructive, if your 1M-P-2M promises 8HCP, you aren't from the same solar system that I am, let alone the same planet.

[phil_20686]

with Hxx you should strive to raise as it makes it easier for partner to lead a spade, simiilarly with xxx you should avoid raising on minimums.

Also, play one round of transfers here, giving up the xx is not expensive, and having two ways to bid hearts is a large gain IMO.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

phil_20686, on 2012-January-09, 06:46, said:

with Hxx you should strive to raise as it makes it easier for partner to lead a spade, simiilarly with xxx you should avoid raising on minimums.

Also, play one round of transfers here, giving up the xx is not expensive, and having two ways to bid hearts is a large gain IMO.

Thx for the transfer tip.

There seems to be a number of instances where transfers solve a lot of problems.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
As a side note, I'm aware of Bromad ( 3 card support over a DBL.... where the responses are similar to Bergen, but on the 2-level ) .
I haven't played it, but I see it does differentiate between the hcp ranges:
1M - ( X ) - ??
..................2C! = mixed raise ( w/3 card support )
..................2D! = limit raise
..................2M! = weak raise

[Vampyr]

phil_20686, on 2012-January-09, 06:46, said:

with Hxx you should strive to raise as it makes it easier for partner to lead a spade, simiilarly with xxx you should avoid raising on minimums.

Also, play one round of transfers here, giving up the xx is not expensive, and having two ways to bid hearts[spades, in this case] is a large gain IMO.

I play transfers here, but I keep the redouble.

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-January-09, 08:56, said:

As a side note, I'm aware of Bromad ( 3 card support over a DBL.... where the responses are similar to Bergen, but on the 2-level ) .
I haven't played it, but I see it does differentiate between the hcp ranges:
1M - ( X ) - ??
..................2C! = mixed raise ( w/3 card support )
..................2D! = limit raise
..................2M! = weak raise

I guess that's great when you have support, but...

[fromageGB]

Agree with Phil, transfers solve the problem of different strength 3 card raises, and different strength 4 card raises, so no need of the "pseudo-Bergen", and you don't lose the minors. But of course with the additional value of being able to bid them weak or strong.

However, if playing transfers for me XX would be a transfer. Vampyr, without that, how can you transfer to 2♣? I would have thought that after 1♠ X then either 1NT is natural and XX transfers to clubs, or XX is a transfer to NT and 1NT is a transfer to clubs, depending on whether you want transfers to include NT or not. But either way, how do you get to 2♣ with an unutilsed XX?

Having said all this, if you have only one 3 card raise, while it might be normally be 8/9, with the Ace of spades it may be worth stretching to get the lead, as long as partner understands it may be weaker. My normal after-a-pass raise is 7-10, and after their overcall that is the transfer strength, with weaker hands like this one making a direct raise.