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6-6 minor two suiter Best way to open

#1 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2012-May-22, 18:50

You deal yourself the following collection all white:

S: -
H: J
D: AQ9853
C: KQ9764

Spots exact.

You have two ways to show this - as a game forcing two suiter with both minors (starting with a multiway 2H then rebidding 3D. If you've started with 2H you can also show this hand after interference by bidding any number of clubs) or you can open it 1D in a 2/1 GF short club context, so 1D promises 4+ (4 only if 4-4-4-1). Your style is to open balanced 11 counts.

What bid do you make with this lot? I went the GF two suited approach (I evaluated it as a 3 loser hand), but P reckons that perhaps 1D is a better start.
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2012-May-22, 20:15

As you have the methods, i would open 2H
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#3 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2012-May-22, 21:35

Are you sure this is the right forum? I would expect the choices would be between 1 and 1 :)
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#4 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2012-May-22, 21:51

View PostAntrax, on 2012-May-22, 21:35, said:

Are you sure this is the right forum? I would expect the choices would be between 1 and 1 :)


I considered it. The 2H method is complex and brown sticker (hand types included are Weak spades, weak minors, GF minors, 24-25 or 33+ semi bal or GF hearts single suiter) but that's missing the point.

The substance of the question is really: Do you use a strong GF bid with highly distributional hands? On the auction he indicated a invitational hand opposite a weak 2 in spades, and preferenced clubs if I had the weak with clubs option. When I then jumped to 5 clubs, and tabled that as dummy he was rather surprised and not pleased. (I should systemically bid 4C or 4D, but I goofed)

When he had some perspective (aka after he made 5C despite a challenging 5-1 diamond break), the post mortem included "It actually isn’t a bad game force. I am just always surprised when something like this comes down. I guess it is because I expect to see more pts, but like you say, there doesn’t need to be."

So I figured I'd ask - if I can open a constructive 1D or make a bid that promises a very powerful hand with a very distributional hand, which is correct.
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#5 User is offline   32519 

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Posted 2012-May-22, 23:35

With these sorts of hands, the only place I want to play is in either minor. So how would I bid it? Not sure - maybe something like this:
1-(any from partner)-5 to get the message across that I want to play in game in either minor. Partner can pass/correct to the better minor.
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#6 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2012-May-23, 01:35

Personally I would bid 1 and then 3, and keep rebidding over partner's bids (or the opponents'). This way when I get to 5, partner knows I'm 6-6, and I still play a game in a minor. I'm not worried about partner expecting defense from me, because I intend to declare the hand in one of the minors, unless something very unexpected happens.
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#7 User is offline   Cthulhu D 

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Posted 2012-May-23, 02:25

View PostAntrax, on 2012-May-23, 01:35, said:

Personally I would bid 1 and then 3, and keep rebidding over partner's bids (or the opponents'). This way when I get to 5, partner knows I'm 6-6, and I still play a game in a minor. I'm not worried about partner expecting defense from me, because I intend to declare the hand in one of the minors, unless something very unexpected happens.


So even if you had a bid for a game forcing two suiter you wouldn't use it?
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#8 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2012-May-23, 03:01

It's hard to answer about a system I don't play. Generally describing my hand quickly and accurately is a good thing, so I guess it hinges on what we define as "game forcing". If it means "a hand meaning to play in game opposite practically nothing", this hand qualifies. If it implies "a hand that expects to get at least a game score on this deal", then this one doesn't, since the opponents may very well make a lot of tricks in a major.
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#9 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-May-23, 03:36

This hand looks like a gf twosuiter in the minors to me, so I bid 2.

If we agreed that this way shows defensive values or overall strength too (like f.e. most strong 2 club openings do), I would open 1 and rebids clubs as often as possible.
Kind Regards

Roland


Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
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#10 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2012-May-23, 15:10

If I was a beginner I'd look at this and say wtf...
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#11 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2012-May-24, 04:51

Hi,

If you can show the gf 2-suiter precise, than go for it.

Playing standard method, I start with 1D, followed by 5C,
if partner passes, or by 3C / 4C if partner responds.

If I am a BI, I wont have the first option, and this leaves
either opening a gf 2C - which would not be a good idea, or
1D followed by bidding clubs.

In general - It is not a good idea, to open the bidding with
a unspecific art. gf bid, when holding a 2-suiter.
Art. gf bids are intended to keep the bidding low.

If one openes with 2C, one will be at the 4 level - needing
3 rounds, until we have shown both of our suits.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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