[perko90]

Ok, so after some more thought, it looks like I'm leaning toward something like this:

Opening Bids:
1♣ = balanced 15-17 OR 15-17 5+ clubs (no 5cM) (also 4=4=1=4) OR 18+ any distribution
1♦ = 11-17 3+ diamonds, unbalanced hand (no 5cM) [if 15+ will have 4+ diamonds] (sometimes stronger than 17 with a 5D-4M hand that would be easier to bid as a pure reverse)
1M = 11-17 5+ M
1NT = 12-14 balanced
2♣ = 10-14 6+ clubs
2♦ = Precision style w/ short diamonds
2♥/2♠ = weak 2
2NT = 20-22-, bal

Responses to 1♣:
1♦ = 0-6(7) any distr. OR 8-9 no 4cM
1♥ = 5+ spades and 7(6)+ HCPs or balanced 8-9 HCPs and exactly 4 spades
1♠ = 5+ hearts and 7(6)+ HCPs or balanced 8-9 HCPs and exactly 4 hearts
1NT = 10+ HCPs 5+ diamonds
2♣ = 10+ HCPs 5+ clubs
2♦ = 10-14 HCPs balanced
2♥ and above = various 4-4-4-1 GF hands and stronger balanced hands

Rebids by opener aafter a positive response:
1NT = 15-17 balanced; if 2NT is minimum NT, then 15-19. If responder showed a major, < 4-card support or if 18-19, < 3-card support [responder assumes 15-17 and opener takes another bid w/ 18-19 (usually 4NT) if there's an attempt to sign-off in game]
minimum club bid shows 15+ and 5+ clubs
Beta (CAB) accepts of the suit transfers (promise fit and GF values) (after an accept of the major, responder bids NT if 8-9 HCPs and only 4-card suit, otherwise answers CAB, not counting NT as a step)
New suits (other than clubs) show 18+ and tend to deny a fit, but 3-card support possible

So, my system looks a whole lot more like Precision than I ever intended at the start. Is it as good (or even better)?

I like that the 15-17 intermediate 1♣ hands show themselves right away and therefore any other bid shows 18+. Also, because of this, I can actually start to show shape in the majors lower than Precision, but hopefully still gain the benefits.

So, I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too. Assuming the weak NT is a big plus (I know there's plenty of room for debate, but that's my firm opinion), and that I actually prefer to show shape 1st with the 16-17 5+ major hands, have I built a better mousetrap than Precision??

[Cthulhu D]

perko90, on 2012-July-07, 21:29, said:

minimum NT = 15-19 balanced. If responder showed a major, < 4-card support or if 18-19, < 3-card support [responder assumes 15-17 and opener takes another bid w/ 18-19 (usually 4NT) if there's an attempt to sign-off in game]

Why not do whatever you are doing with 20-21 with the 18-19 hands and put the 20-21 in with the 15-17 after a positive response. Then there a greater chance responder will want to move again over 4NT.

[perko90]

Cthulhu D, on 2012-July-08, 01:24, said:

Why not do whatever you are doing with 20-21 with the 18-19 hands and put the 20-21 in with the 15-17 after a positive response. Then there a greater chance responder will want to move again over 4NT.

Thanks for the suggestion; I appreciate what you're trying to do. I edited the previous post for clarity. 20-21 is in the 2NT opening.
I did that for 2 reasons: 1) I'm not dying to use 2NT for say 5-5 minor preempt or other such bids 2) I've stuffed 1 more NT range into 1♣ than other systems and so I want to relieve a bit of that burden.

After a 2-level positive response, I don't know a good way to separate the 15-17 range from the 18-19, although I would definitely like to!
After say 1♣-2♦ (10+bal), I think I have to make 2NT carry the wide NT range in order to leave room for Stayman.

FWIW, I also considered leaving 1NT as the natural 10+ bal response to 1♣ and 2♦ as natural 5+ diamonds, but rejected it because I wanted to leave room for a cheap 2♣ rebid (possibly only 15-17) when responder shows diamonds, and eliminate the need for a 3♦ raise by opener as the Beta ask, as that seems quite high for an uncontested auction.

However - and I just thought of this now - maybe I could keep the 1NT response as natural and swap the minor suit responses, so that 2♣ = 5+ diamonds and 2♦ = 5+ clubs. At least there the diamond agreement/Beta ask can be at the 2 level (but unfortunately not the club rebid). But now Stayman is available at the 2 level which may be more important w/ needing to unwind the NT ranges. It's a thought(?).

[PrecisionL]

After wrong siding 1NT two times this week (Playing Precision with a natural NT positive as per Berkowitz-Cohen) for poor match point pair scores, I don't like 1♣ - 1NT showing diamonds in your posting (or 8-10 hcp balanced).

The 1NT positive response should NOT be a hand that likely will play in NT and thus put the strong hand in dummy making the defense so much easier.

Slightly better would be that 1♣ - 1NT shows a 5-cd or better Major. BIL uses it to show 5+ ♠.
Reference: http://bbo.pigpen.org.uk/1c.php

Other approaches are to make a 1NT response stronger, or artificial:

(1) 1♣ - 2♦ response as 8-10 balanced (Meckwell like) and make the 1NT response natural but 11-14, or

(2) 4-4 Majors as proposed by Timm in Precision Simplified, 2010, or

(3) 5-4 in the Majors (C3 System, unpublished), or

(4) Put balanced hands into one of the Major hands, 1♥ or 1♠ per Meckwell, or

(5) Put balanced hands into the 2♣ or 2♦ response, or

(6) Make-up your own treatment

[PrecisionL]

perko90, on 2012-July-08, 02:56, said:

However - and I just thought of this now - maybe I could keep the 1NT response as natural and swap the minor suit responses, so that 2♣ = 5+ diamonds and 2♦ = 5+ clubs. At least there the diamond agreement/Beta ask can be at the 2 level (but unfortunately not the club rebid). But now Stayman is available at the 2 level which may be more important w/ needing to unwind the NT ranges. It's a thought(?).

Interesting ... I am in the process of designing a simple Transfer Precision system for an old partner and decided to use:

1♣ - 2♣: (a) 5+♦, or (b) Balanced and 11-14 hcp

1♣ - 2♦: (a) 5+♣, or (b) Balanced and 8-10 / 15+ hcp

Thus, 1♣ - 1NT is available for something else that fills a system gap.

I have generated hands to look for problems, but none found yet - they usually appear at the table.

[Zelandakh]

PrecisionL, on 2012-July-08, 08:55, said:

Interesting ... I am in the process of designing a simple Transfer Precision system for an old partner and decided to use:

Have you seen my right-siding response scheme?

1♥ = 4+ spades, if balanced then 44(32), if 3-suited then 4-5 hearts
1♠ = 0-3 hearts, 0-3 spades
1NT = hearts, or hearts and clubs
2♣ = hearts and diamonds
2♦ = 4-5 hearts, 0-3 spades, balanced or 3-suited
2♥ = 4-5 spades, 2-3 hearts, balanced
2♠ = 4-5 spades, 0-1 hearts, 3-suited

[radzik]

Something a bit similar used by me for a couple of years:

1♣ 11+ nat unbal, 15+ bal, 18+ any
1♦ 11-17 unbal
1M - 11-17 5CM
1NT 11-14
2♣ preempt with 54+ majors
2♦ multi (or Wilkosz where accepted)
2♥♠ pre with 5 suit bid and 5 minor (weak two where Wilkosz 2♦ accepted)

[perko90]

Thanks for the replies so far.
I think I have to keep the heart and spade showing bids at th 1-lvl to allow the 1NT rebid by opener given my goal of showing some shape w/ < GF hands, especially the majors.
Looks like I have a number of things to consider for 1NT and 2-level bids.
I definitely have more thinking to do. I'll be on vacation for a while, but I'll get back to this for sure.