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Your opponents are psyching.

#1 User is offline   Lord Molyb 

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Posted 2012-December-24, 13:11

Both sides playing SAYC in matchpoints:

You're already mad at your opponents, but before you do anything you must finish bidding. What do you do now?
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#2 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-December-24, 13:42

4s

Has to be to play as we cannot suddenly be looking for slam via splinter
or exclusion. P chose to balance with 3d a dangerous come back vs double
which is a lot more flexible. That means p most likely has a serious flaw in
their distribution that prevents them from using x and IMO increasing the
likelihood of them having at least some spade length.
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#3 User is offline   RMB1 

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Posted 2012-December-24, 13:56

View PostLord Molyb, on 2012-December-24, 13:11, said:

You're already mentally slapping your opponents but before you take any action against them ...

What have opponents done wrong that deserve "slapping" and have "action" taken?

4 looks a reasonable shot now.
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#4 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-December-24, 14:01

I really don't think 4S is natural here, I would guess it was some kind of bluhmer (eg hands with 4 small or 5 small spades and a great diamond fit). I will pay off to the first seat white psyche working out this time, I hope it encourages them to keep doing it against me.
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#5 User is offline   Lord Molyb 

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Posted 2012-December-24, 14:12

View PostRMB1, on 2012-December-24, 13:56, said:

What have opponents done wrong that deserve "slapping" and have "action" taken?

4 looks a reasonable shot now.

removed offending parts
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#6 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2012-December-24, 14:52

I think I just have to let them get away with this.
4S is the right call if it's natural, but first seat psyches are so rare that partner won't work it out, he'll think we have something like xxxxx x Axxxx KQ (although perhaps we should bid 4H on that hand).
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#7 User is offline   RMB1 

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Posted 2012-December-24, 15:00

View PostLord Molyb, on 2012-December-24, 14:12, said:

removed offending parts

Sorry if my post appeared bullying.

Just trying to make the point that psyching is not necessarily illegal.

Merry Christmas
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#8 User is offline   Lord Molyb 

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Posted 2012-December-24, 16:40

View PostRMB1, on 2012-December-24, 15:00, said:

Sorry if my post appeared bullying.

Just trying to make the point that psyching is not necessarily illegal.

Merry Christmas

I know, I've psyched before (to very good results)
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#9 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-December-27, 20:01

since all people wil be on 4 the only way to catch up at MPs is 3NT and that's what I'd try. At IMPs 3 might be better. Whatever we do we cannot pass, we want to make RHO bid as many rounds as possible, and after first round spade bids will become natural.
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#10 User is offline   losercover 

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Posted 2012-December-27, 20:42

let the director sort it out. I would expect to be awarded an average plus.

people just don't psych once and their card likely doesn't say frequent pyches.
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#11 User is offline   bigbenvic 

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Posted 2012-December-27, 20:44

4 and why did I pass 2?

It can't be slam try as I cannot have a hand that good that passed 2.

I'm thanking partner for balancing and hoping he trusts me!
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#12 User is offline   Lord Molyb 

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Posted 2012-December-27, 20:45

View Postbigbenvic, on 2012-December-27, 20:44, said:

4 and why did I pass 2?

It can't be slam try as I cannot have a hand that good that passed 2.

I'm thanking partner for balancing and hoping he trusts me!

What would you do over 2?
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#13 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2012-December-27, 20:50

View Postlosercover, on 2012-December-27, 20:42, said:

let the director sort it out. I would expect to be awarded an average plus.

Why would you expect that? Is psyching against the rules at your club?
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#14 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-December-27, 21:02

View PostBbradley62, on 2012-December-27, 20:50, said:

Why would you expect that? Is psyching against the rules at your club?


Even if it was, I'd bet there is no law against pulling the wrong card from the bidding box.
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#15 User is offline   losercover 

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Posted 2012-December-27, 23:01

View PostFluffy, on 2012-December-27, 21:02, said:

Even if it was, I'd bet there is no law against pulling the wrong card from the bidding box.


First of all, the topic said the opponents were psyching. You shouldn't be penalized for their actions. I would call the director and the director would speak to me privately and then talk to the one spade bidder privately and determine what was going on. Most of my play was in sectionals and regionals. I work and where I live the only club games with a decent number of tables are in the morning and afternoon.

We play 19-21 NT range. 2NT rebid is 17-18 and a 1NT rebid is 13-16 instead of the normal 12-14. We've had the director called on this and for a while the responder announced the NT range on the 1NT rebid, like they do on the opening 1NT. Finally, after discussing this with multiple directors we didn't need to announce the range on the rebid anymore.

I have called the director to register psyches before and for this example I don't think the director would let it slide if it was intentional.
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#16 User is offline   bigbenvic 

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Posted 2012-December-27, 23:07

View PostLord Molyb, on 2012-December-27, 20:45, said:

What would you do over 2?


Not Pass!
Double is an option (I have 4)
3 would be a stopper ask, so that's out, 4 as strange as it is has to be to play.

What would a 4 direct bid be? Some kind of voidwood? Since I don't play that it's natural. Partner is going to struggle to believe me but it can have no other meaning for me.
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#17 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-December-27, 23:17

View Postlosercover, on 2012-December-27, 23:01, said:

First of all, the topic said the opponents were psyching. You shouldn't be penalized for their actions. I would call the director and the director would speak to me privately and then talk to the one spade bidder privately and determine what was going on. Most of my play was in sectionals and regionals. I work and where I live the only club games with a decent number of tables are in the morning and afternoon.

We play 19-21 NT range. 2NT rebid is 17-18 and a 1NT rebid is 13-16 instead of the normal 12-14. We've had the director called on this and for a while the responder announced the NT range on the 1NT rebid, like they do on the opening 1NT. Finally, after discussing this with multiple directors we didn't need to announce the range on the rebid anymore.

I have called the director to register psyches before and for this example I don't think the director would let it slide if it was intentional.

Unless there is evidence of a CPU, the TD can do no more than record the psych - which is afaik a very unusual procedure in the ACBL. As for mentioning psych frequency on the back of the score card, last I checked that's not legal in ACBL-land.

BTW, psychs are always intentional - if the action was not intentionally a psych, it wasn't a psych at all.

AFAIK you should never have been required to announce your 1NT rebid range, nor to alert it.
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#18 User is offline   losercover 

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Posted 2012-December-28, 00:02

View Postblackshoe, on 2012-December-27, 23:17, said:

Unless there is evidence of a CPU, the TD can do no more than record the psych - which is afaik a very unusual procedure in the ACBL. As for mentioning psych frequency on the back of the score card, last I checked that's not legal in ACBL-land.

BTW, psychs are always intentional - if the action was not intentionally a psych, it wasn't a psych at all.

AFAIK you should never have been required to announce your 1NT rebid range, nor to alert it.


I started playing bridge in the late 50's and didn't play from 2000-2010. There was a section on the card that mentioned pysch frequency . I see that is no longer there. If the psycher's partner knows that his partner psyches regularly, shouldn't the opponents have that information?

"Excessive Psychic Bidding —

When three or more psychic When three or more psychic initial actions by members of a partnership have been reported in any one session and are called to the attention of the Director, the Director should investigate the possibility that excessive psyching is taking place. A presumption of inappropriate behavior exists, and it is up to the players to demonstrate that they were not just horsing around. It is up to them to show that they happened, this once, to pick up a string of hands unusually appropriate for psychs.

The continued use of undisciplined psychic bids tends to create partnership understandings that are implied from partnership experience."

If a player psychs, the opponents should report the psych. It's then the director's decision.
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#19 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-December-28, 05:50

you report it AFTER the board is played, if you do it in the middle you ae giving UI to partner, wich will probably ban him from pass any spade bids you make. Calling director on the middle of this board ... I have no words.
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#20 User is offline   Lord Molyb 

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Posted 2012-December-28, 10:23

View PostLord Molyb, on 2012-December-24, 13:11, said:

... but before you do anything you must finish bidding. What do you do now?

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