[Free]

I voted for 3♥, but after reading the comments I think 2♥ is better. My ♥s are too strong, so the chance is real that one of our opps has a small 3 card ♥ and upgrades his hand significantly.

[Zelandakh]

 TWO4BRIDGE, on 2013-August-22, 16:09, said:

What is the "mixed raise" bid for this hand ? ( I assume 2S! is the limit raise w/ 3 or 4 cards, and 3H the weak raise w/4 cards, and 2H = simple raise w/ 3 cards and ~ 6 - 9 hcp ) .

Depends on system. Bill already mentioned transfer advances and some of those that do not play them are willing to give up one of their other raise bids to get a mixed raise into the structure. For example, in an Acol context (4 card majors) I have sometimes played X = 3 hearts on this auction, which frees up 2NT. One possibility for that (amongst many) is a mixed raise.

[ArtK78]

In my opinion, one should not make a mixed raise on 4333 shape.

[P_Marlowe]

<snip> --- misread the auction

The hand is a classical mixed raise, I can have a lot less than the given hand
for the single raise, but the 4333 and the wasted Queen of spades makes this is
hand also not suitable for a preemptive raise.

I guess 2H (I voted misreaing in mind) is the lesser distortion.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[rhm]

 ArtK78, on 2013-August-23, 05:10, said:

In my opinion, one should not make a mixed raise on 4333 shape.

At least you need compensating values this hand does not have. Give me a side ace instead of the queen of spades and I might consider it.

Rainer Herrmann

[gnasher]

Are the 2♥ bidders planning to defend 2♠, or are you planning to "compete to your fit" in stages?

[gwnn]

I for one would bid 2♥ then 3♥. I don't think this is an impossible course of action as some people do (not saying you're one of them).

[fromageGB]

 Zelandakh, on 2013-August-23, 04:58, said:

Depends on system. Bill already mentioned transfer advances and some of those that do not play them are willing to give up one of their other raise bids to get a mixed raise into the structure. For example, in an Acol context (4 card majors) I have sometimes played X = 3 hearts on this auction, which frees up 2NT. One possibility for that (amongst many) is a mixed raise.

I voted 2♥ to keep in the spirit of the question, but in fact with one regular partner I bid 2♦ as a good raise to 2♥, and with another (both 1♥=5 card), X to show a good raise to 2♥. However, if 2♠ is passed round to me, I will protect with 3♥. Maybe I shouldn't at IMPS, but MP habits die hard.

[broze]

 gwnn, on 2013-August-23, 08:33, said:

I for one would bid 2♥ then 3♥. I don't think this is an impossible course of action as some people do (not saying you're one of them).

Innnteresting. This was going to be my followup question. The bidding at my table continued as follows:

---

Is this just bad bridge or can something be said for bidding this way?

[akwoo]

I think 2♥ then 3♥ after a double is right. The double increases the odds of North having a singleton heart quite a bit, and having hearts split 3-1 rather than 2-2 often means an extra total trick on this kind of hand. (Essentially, it undoes the adjustment you made for your 4333 shape, because the uneven heart split saves them a loser without giving you a trick, because there was no second ruff in dummy for you anyway.)

Edited to add: Note I wouldn't always compete to 3♥. If South raises to 2♠ or North rebids 2♠ I'm passing it out. It's specifically the double from North that is encouraging me to compete further.

[gnasher]

 broze, on 2013-August-23, 11:28, said:

Is this just bad bridge or can something be said for bidding this way?

Yes, something can be said for bidding this way: it helps partner by warning him not to overcompete, because you have a fairly low offensive-defensive ratio. Of course, the downside is that you also tell the opponents that, and you also give them more space.

[gnasher]

 gwnn, on 2013-August-23, 08:33, said:

I for one would bid 2♥ then 3♥. I don't think this is an impossible course of action as some people do (not saying you're one of them).

I don't think it's wrong ever to bid like that, but I don't think this is the hand for it. When I bid 2♥ followed by 3♥, it means I was hoping to buy the hand in 2♥. but I now judge that bidding 3♥ is better than defending.

On this hand I don't think it's realistic to hope to play in 2♥, so I'd bid a direct 3♥, hoping that the opponents would misjudge and trusting my partner not to get overexcited.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2013-August-23, 15:59

[PhilKing]

 gnasher, on 2013-August-23, 08:07, said:

Are the 2♥ bidders planning to defend 2♠, or are you planning to "compete to your fit" in stages?

I bid 2♥ and sold to 3♦. I think after the direct 3♥ they should have sniffed 5♦ though few did.

2♥ then 3♥ merits drooler status.

[rhm]

 PhilKing, on 2013-August-23, 17:24, said:

2♥ then 3♥ merits drooler status.

 akwoo, on 2013-August-23, 15:54, said:

I think 2♥ then 3♥ after a double is right. The double increases the odds of North having a singleton heart quite a bit, and having hearts split 3-1 rather than 2-2 often means an extra total trick on this kind of hand. (Essentially, it undoes the adjustment you made for your 4333 shape, because the uneven heart split saves them a loser without giving you a trick, because there was no second ruff in dummy for you anyway.)

Edited to add: Note I wouldn't always compete to 3♥. If South raises to 2♠ or North rebids 2♠ I'm passing it out. It's specifically the double from North that is encouraging me to compete further.

I think that is exactly wrong.
If South bids 2♠ and 2♠ comes round to me of course I bid 3♥, but probably only in this standard scenario.
This situation is entirely different.
Opponents have a spade fit and have limited their potential as has partner.
Total tricks will be at least 16. So at least either 2♠ or 3♥ will be making, more likely 2♠. But if 2♠ makes, it does not matter if we are down undoubled and the cost of being down will usually be less.
Opponents will often be pushed to 3♠. Partner is not supposed to go any higher
Being not vulnerable, risk of DBL is negligible even at pairs and if we would be down several with such good hearts and thanks to their spade fit.
Opponents do not know you are 4333. You would bid the same with three hearts and a singleton spade.
Note, you can not necessarily anticipate they have a spade fit at your first turn to bid, though they often do.
What usually happens when you bid 3♥ and it gets close, is that one opponent, having some extras, doubles and the other giving his hand a long hard look bids 3♠.
It is a standard scenario, it is good Bridge not meriting drooler status.

Rainer Herrmann

[gwnn]

What do you mean by 3D? I wouldn't bid 3H over the double or over any 3m bid after the double. I would never let them play 2S though. Is this still a drooler strategy?

[PhilKing]

 gwnn, on 2013-August-24, 01:47, said:

What do you mean by 3D? I wouldn't bid 3H over the double or over any 3m bid after the double. I would never let them play 2S though. Is this still a drooler strategy?

Sorry. I am biased by knowing that they bid 3♦ rather than 2♠ over the double which is where matters rested. Had we now bid 3♥, lefty bids 4♦ which may well get a fifth.

http://app.pianola.n...8/Travellers/12