[mr1303]

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For better or for worse, 4D would show diamonds, so your choices are (realistically) 4H or pass. Playing matchpointed pairs.

[SteveMoe]

No. Vulnerability and Position mitigate any friskiness on my part.

[ggwhiz]

Not tempted......... on reverse vul either.

[neilkaz]

Why would I bid at these colors and offer the opps the choice between doubling me and carrying on to 4♠?

[madongjun]

I Would like Pass.

[nige1]

mr1303, on 2013-December-29, 16:36, said:

For better or for worse, 4D would show diamonds, so your choices are (realistically) 4H or pass. Playing matchpointed pairs.

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IMO Pass = 10, Double = 6, 4♦ (As Ken says, this should show ♥ too) = 6, 4♥ = 5.

[mr1303]

There is the possibility of needing to direct the lead against 4S, which could make a significant difference at pairs.

Most other pairs won't have the same auction.

[wanoff]

mr1303, on 2013-December-31, 04:14, said:

There is the possibility of needing to direct the lead against 4S, which could make a significant difference at pairs.

Most other pairs won't have the same auction.

It could be right to bid, especially if you know your opponents will never defend - for the lead or even a make if partner has say ♦AJ.
But I wouldn't, it's way against the odds and partner may lead a heart anyhow.
If East has 4cd support the auction may be duplicated at other tables.

[kenrexford]

4minor should probably show a two Suiter with hearts as implicitly suggested. Parallel if hearts agreed. Being able to suggest a five - level minor call from partner with safety of the four level seems less useful and possibly less common than being able to get in with these two suit hands that have the advantage of being able to get to game in the major, especially if they have hearts. Same principle is the call by Responder is 3S in either situation.

[Winstonm]

Being able to show a heart suit when the opponents have found game-forcing spade raise is not high on my list of important hands to describe.

I would have more sympathy for this problem if the auction had been 1H-3N and I held spades + a minor.

[Lorne50]

mr1303, on 2013-December-29, 16:36, said:

For better or for worse, 4D would show diamonds, so your choices are (realistically) 4H or pass. Playing matchpointed pairs.

Isn't double a possibility ? Seems more likely to win than 4♥ to me.

[cherdano]

kenrexford, on 2013-December-31, 10:12, said:

4minor should probably show a two Suiter with hearts as implicitly suggested. Parallel if hearts agreed. Being able to suggest a five - level minor call from partner with safety of the four level seems less useful and possibly less common than being able to get in with these two suit hands that have the advantage of being able to get to game in the major, especially if they have hearts. Same principle is the call by Responder is 3S in either situation.

Dude. Opponents forced to game with a spade fit.
Should you get to declare a contract here and make it, you will get game bonus. I promise.
So there is little difference between showing hearts and showing a minor at this point.

[kenrexford]

cherdano, on 2014-January-01, 06:23, said:

Dude. Opponents forced to game with a spade fit.
Should you get to declare a contract here and make it, you will get game bonus. I promise.
So there is little difference between showing hearts and showing a minor at this point.

Of course. But I like consistent agreements. I am also considering alternative sequence definitions that start the same way but might make actual intervention more appealing than a red on white step in against an 8 fit. The likely alternative is when Responder is light on hcp but heavy on distribution.

[cherdano]

kenrexford, on 2014-January-01, 08:33, said:

Of course. But I like consistent agreements. I am also considering alternative sequence definitions that start the same way but might make actual intervention more appealing than a red on white step in against an 8 fit. The likely alternative is when Responder is light on hcp but heavy on distribution.

But still, the big decision on any auction like this is what to do over 4S. The likelihood of
- having game in 4H,
- based on a two-suited hand, and
- getting to play 4H
is pretty small.

[kenrexford]

cherdano, on 2014-January-01, 10:01, said:

But still, the big decision on any auction like this is what to do over 3S. The likelihood of
- having game in 4H,
- based on a two-suited hand, and
- getting to play 4H
is pretty small.

I agree that the chances of this are small. However, the chances of having any call are small, as are the chances of playing any contract. It is comparative likelihood and potential gain and consistency I am concerned about. In the context of a heart agreement by the opponents, the ideal situation upon which I base my model, 4S is very much in play, and the ideal situation of an unbalanced low hcp high shape meaning for Responder makes the two suit option more likely when it is more important. Against this is the desirability of a natural minor call, which occurs less often (I might have passed earlier), offers less in the way of playing strength (I need much more length to reduce ltc), offers less in the way of potential gain of a making 10 track game, and is potentially handled alternatively by way of simply bidding 5.

[gszes]

there are times the opponents methods are going to rip us to shreds. We

can follow sage advice when fixed stay fixed do not make it worse. We have

less than no reason to assume there is anything reasonable we can do at this

point at these colors and we have to start our "exploration" at the 4 level which

is unlikely to be the case at the other table. To bid now is to just plain gamble

and if your partnership likes to play that way go ahead and enjoy just be willing

to shrug off any bad results. The downside is every once in a while you will actually

have a powerhouse hand and there will be no way to convey that message to partner

if you are willing to bid with this collection under these conditions good luck