[blackshoe]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-May-25, 13:29, said:

Glad I don't play it then, everybody I've met (and noticed) in the UK playing SA seems to use it as part of the system with the exception of 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠

Heh. SAYC and SA are different systems (I suppose you could call SAYC a "child" of SA), but see below.

Zelandakh, on 2014-May-25, 13:30, said:

From page 4 of the ACBL SAYC System Booklet:

I sit corrected.

[SelfGovern]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-May-25, 13:29, said:

Glad I don't play it then, everybody I've met (and noticed) in the UK playing SA seems to use it as part of the system with the exception of 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠

"SA" (Standard American) is not "SAYC" (Standard American Yellow Card).

SA is like saying "Acol" -- four or five card majors? What's your 2-bid structure? How do you respond to Multi 2D? etc. SA is a very-much-up-to-the-partnership collection of gadgets and styles they choose to suit themselves, with some of the few constraints being that it's typically a 5-card major, strong NT "system".

SAYC on the other hand is a very well-defined set of conventions and treatments. It was developed (to the best of my knowledge) by the ACBL to allow partnerships to play a certain set of conventions (5-card major, strong NT based) with a minimum of gadgets (weak twos, Jacoby, Stayman, etc.) that allows for very little deviation (example: Want to play 2D opening as something other than weak? No can do. Bergen raises? Sorry.). See the card at http://web2.acbl.org...y/sayc_card.pdf , or do a search for the SAYC system explanation in .pdf.

This allows for a new partnership to sit down and play together with less chance of misunderstanding, and helps speed up certain games at tournaments, especially when only SAYC is allowed. It's called SAYellowCard because the convention card is supposed to be printed on yellow stock to make it easy to know your opps are playing SAYC and not some "complicated" system.

[jdgalt]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-May-25, 11:32, said:

Why aren't you bidding NT if 4-4 in ♥/♣ or is this only with ♣xxxx ?

I don't think anyone has said what's in opener's hand. I'd guess exactly 4 spades, 2 or fewer hearts, and diamonds at least as long as clubs, but that still leaves a lot of wiggle room. If opener has one or no hearts (he could easily be 4=0=5=4) notrump could be a disaster.

Cyberyeti, on 2014-May-25, 11:32, said:

4SF is used in all sorts of systems as it allows you not to consume needless space by jumping any time you hold a good hand.

That's the 2/1 philosophy, but I've never been impressed by it. Better to know your strength within a narrow range early on. I've played 2/1 and had disaster after disaster, because it makes just about every exploratory auction forcing to game.

[Cyberyeti]

jdgalt, on 2014-May-25, 23:01, said:

I don't think anyone has said what's in opener's hand. I'd guess exactly 4 spades, 2 or fewer hearts, and diamonds at least as long as clubs, but that still leaves a lot of wiggle room. If opener has one or no hearts (he could easily be 4=0=5=4) notrump could be a disaster.

He's allowed to bid clubs over your NT.

Quote

That's the 2/1 philosophy, but I've never been impressed by it. Better to know your strength within a narrow range early on. I've played 2/1 and had disaster after disaster, because it makes just about every exploratory auction forcing to game.

Forget 2/1, Acol uses it and so does pretty much everything else, it also doesn't have to be game forcing if you agree it not to be as we do at the 2 level.

[kenberg]

In poat number 9 OP says waht was in his hand. A spade void and

-
AK763
954
K9543

I agree that this is a tough hand to bid if 3♣ is unavailable for it.

2♣ as forcing (it always is) but not game forcing would be useful. Which I think is the way it is in SAYC.

[diana_eva]

I play that as weak with long clubs and 4 hearts in several partnerships. No special reason for it, I thought it was standard TBH and anyway it comes up too rarely to matter.