[biggerclub]

 whereagles, on 2014-July-06, 10:18, said:

I'm talking something like

x
KQxx
AQJx
xxxx

By the way, I consider 2♠ a positive action.

People don't overcall 4 card suits here? Ever?

[biggerclub]

 johnu, on 2014-July-07, 13:27, said:

GIB may describe many doubles as takeout but too often passes as if they were penalty On the other hand, GIB frequently takes out doubles that are for penalties when pass is indicated, so I guess everything balances out okay.

I have given up on even hoping that GIB will interpret x's properly. If I can beat a contract 2 tricks and I know it, I have to pass or end up playing in an unmakeable contract 1 level higher.

[whereagles]

 biggerclub, on 2014-July-20, 00:27, said:

People don't overcall 4 card suits here? Ever?

Some people do. But most see it as something heretic

[chasetb]

Earl, you have said in two posts that +800 isn't a good score compared to game, which is likely +600/620 unless you are playing some crazy scoring method?

I generally agree with you that there aren't hands between a Weak 2 and opening 1M, EXCEPT when it come to 2nd hand pre-empts (especially VUL). Suit quality is a big factor, because you can easily end up in a 6-1 or 6-0 (GASP!) when you had a better fit.

 Zelandakh, on 2014-July-07, 10:32, said:

According to the Robson-Segal rules this double shows a raise to 3♠ that also suggests a sacrifice in 4♠ (see page 124 and then again page 221). Without this specific agreement it is penalties.

Zel, I disagree with you because I bet Robson/Segal would say that this is penalty 100% of the time. Look at page 117 when talking about pre-empts. For those that don't want to download/read Partnership Bidding at Bridge : c) Second-in-hand: 1-3. (my note to the forum posters - on an aggression scale of 1-10) This is not the time to pressure-bid, as we saw in the section "The right time to strike". Take the vulnerability into account a little, but generally keep your pre-empts within a fairly narrow range. Partner will often have a good hand and will need to know what you've got - either in order to bid constructively; or to double the opponents, particularly if they protect ...

So I look at the auction as they opened, partner shows his or her hand with a flawed but now worthy Weak 2, and then opener PROTECTS on his or her own. Our X says that we are cracking the whip, no doubt in my mind.

[Zelandakh]

 chasetb, on 2014-July-20, 03:13, said:

Zel, I disagree with you because I bet Robson/Segal would say that this is penalty 100% of the time. Look at page 117 when talking about pre-empts.

But that section deals with opening preempts and partner did not open a second seat preempt. They made a 2M WJO, which is covered in the sections I highlighted earlier. Whether it should be considered a "proper" WJO in fourth seat is another question, as per the previous post, but that is not discussed as far as I can see. They do discuss the difference from a 2M opening, where double is always penalty for an unpassed hand or after a fourth seat opening. This double (showing support) is specifically for WJOs of 2M so pointing at sections that deal with different calls is unlikely to be relevant.

[MrAce]

Don't get me wrong, I really like the work Robson-Segal made with this book. But boy...I really don't care what they say, this is penalty double in the pdships I am involved with.

To me preempt/wjo does not make sense when opponents are about to play 1 club if we pass. It is also dangerous to balance with weak hands when pd passed 1 Cl. Initial pass otoh overrides anything stronger. So this 2 sp must be a picture bid hand that pd could not open due to restrictions previous round. Most likely 6-4 majors and they strictly deny side 4 card M when they open weak 2 M.

Edit: I see Rik already mentioned 6-4 MM