[lycier]

---

Gib open 1H with 22 hcp in the balance hand.
This is my first time to find this kind of situation.

[manudude03]

Well judged, partner has 3HCP and can't make game anywhere with best defense.

[lycier]

Don't care about the result.
Don't care about the judgement.
It should open 2♣ with 22hcp in this balance hand.
1♥ is a opening mistake .

[1eyedjack]

I think that opening 1H is borderline at worst. But that is just me talking. When I open 2C I really mean it. But then I am from UK. In US they tend to open 2C lighter, What they do in China I really don't know. Prob open strong 1C

[steve2005]

Flannery type hands (5♥4♠) difficult to bid and show shape economically. If Gib opens 2♣ it is going to have to GF if it wants to show it's shape. and this is not a GF hand and not good enough for a 2N rebid. (edit) may have 22 pts for a 2N rebid but who wants to rebid 2N 5-4 in majors?/edit

[helene_t]

I would have gfd with that hand. Not that I feel strongly about it

[Antrax]

I would also open 1♥.

It's not surprising GIB agrees because for GIB 2♣ and then suit is 23+ not balanced, and 2♣ into 2NT is 22-33, except it doesn't consider 4=5=2=2 to be balanced. So, the only option for it is 1♥.
I'm guess lycier proposes modifying the limits by 1 HCP to tip this hand into the 2♣ opener.

[lycier]

 Antrax, on 2014-July-28, 21:15, said:

I would also open 1♥.

It's not surprising GIB agrees because for GIB 2♣ and then suit is 23+ not balanced, and 2♣ into 2NT is 22-33, except it doesn't consider 4=5=2=2 to be balanced. So, the only option for it is 1♥.
I'm guess lycier proposes modifying the limits by 1 HCP to tip this hand into the 2♣ opener.

I don't agree.
As we know that Gib 2♣ and then suit is 19+,not 23+ in GCC.
If 4=5=2=2,Gib usually bid 5-card suit instead of 2NT.
any idea?

[helene_t]

 lycier, on 2014-July-29, 03:53, said:

As we know that Gib 2♣ and then suit is 19+,not 23+ in GCC.
If 4=5=2=2,Gib usually bid 5-card suit instead of 2NT.
any idea?

Because, as steve2005 points out, in order to show both suits you would have to force to game.

You can have a bit less when you have a one-suiter in hearts or spades because
2♣*-2♦*
2♥-3♣*
3♥
is nonforcing. But
2♣*-2♦*
2♥-3♣*
3♠
is forcing.

[42krunner]

I look at that hand. It is a three loser hand. I open 2♣.

I'd open 4♥ with that hand before I open 1♥.

[Bbradley62]

Regardless of how a human would handle this, I think there's a much more simple answer as to why GIB opens 1♥. GIB wants 23 total points to open 2♣; this hand has 22HCP, and any points awarded for minor-suit shortnesses are deleted for honors-in-shortnesses.

So, if the major suits were switched, and a human could open 2♣ then show both majors without forcing game, GIB still would open 1♠ because he doesn't have 23 total points.

Edit: I now see that this has already been covered above.

[Bbradley62]

 Antrax, on 2014-July-28, 21:15, said:

I'm guess lycier proposes modifying the limits by 1 HCP to tip this hand into the 2♣ opener.

My oft-stated proposal is that stiff-A, Ax, Kx and AK-tight retain their distribution points rather than have them discounted for alleged duplication of values.

[steve2005]

its just one of the drawbacks of Standard American based systems. Sometimes your stuck and your best choice is to open at the 1 level with a very strong hand. This is one of the benefits of strong club systems it doesn't happen to them.

[biggerclub]

 Bbradley62, on 2014-July-30, 12:24, said:

Regardless of how a human would handle this, I think there's a much more simple answer as to why GIB opens 1♥. GIB wants 23 total points to open 2♣; this hand has 22HCP, and any points awarded for minor-suit shortnesses are deleted for honors-in-shortnesses.

So, if the major suits were switched, and a human could open 2♣ then show both majors without forcing game, GIB still would open 1♠ because he doesn't have 23 total points.

Edit: I now see that this has already been covered above.

So playing with GIB we are forced to keep the auction open with 4HCP? Or even a good 3?

I realize that whatever the cut-off there will be a borderline hand. 22 seems a better cutoff than 23 to me. Given the typical Responder structure.

[Bbradley62]

 biggerclub, on 2014-July-30, 16:06, said:

So playing with GIB we are forced to keep the auction open with 4HCP? Or even a good 3?

I realize that whatever the cut-off there will be a borderline hand. 22 seems a better cutoff than 23 to me. Given the typical Responder structure.

I did not mean to comment on the appropriateness of 22 vs 23; I was trying to explain how/why GIB took the action he did based on his system.

It's my understanding (I haven't played a f2f tournament in 20 years) that playing with anyone you need to keep the auction open unless the 2♣ opener rebids 2N.

[biggerclub]

 Bbradley62, on 2014-July-30, 19:16, said:

It's my understanding (I haven't played a f2f tournament in 20 years) that playing with anyone you need to keep the auction open unless the 2♣ opener rebids 2N.

My comment about keeping the auction open was directed to those times that GIB opens 1♥ (or more generally 1 anything).

Yes, of course, over 2♣, we are forced to keep the auction open with the possible exception of systems that employ double negatives, either in 1 bid (as in 2♥), or in 2 (as in cheaper minor).

I do not know who is merely expert on GIB ranges (as you are, apparently) and who has some authority for programming GIB. So I was making a suggestion to the latter group that 22 might be a better cut-off than 23. I do know that GIB uses cheaper minor for double negative so it would seem that it could easily handle a 22HCP lower limit to the range.