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Gib open 1H with 22 hcp in the balance hand

#1 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2014-July-28, 05:49



Gib open 1H with 22 hcp in the balance hand.
This is my first time to find this kind of situation.
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#2 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2014-July-28, 07:44

Well judged, partner has 3HCP and can't make game anywhere with best defense.
Wayne Somerville
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#3 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2014-July-28, 11:59

Don't care about the result.
Don't care about the judgement.
It should open 2 with 22hcp in this balance hand.
1 is a opening mistake .
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#4 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-July-28, 12:59

I think that opening 1H is borderline at worst. But that is just me talking. When I open 2C I really mean it. But then I am from UK. In US they tend to open 2C lighter, What they do in China I really don't know. Prob open strong 1C
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#5 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2014-July-28, 14:40

Flannery type hands (54) difficult to bid and show shape economically. If Gib opens 2 it is going to have to GF if it wants to show it's shape. and this is not a GF hand and not good enough for a 2N rebid. (edit) may have 22 pts for a 2N rebid but who wants to rebid 2N 5-4 in majors?/edit
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#6 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-July-28, 16:07

I would have gfd with that hand. Not that I feel strongly about it
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#7 User is offline   Antrax 

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Posted 2014-July-28, 21:15

I would also open 1.

It's not surprising GIB agrees because for GIB 2 and then suit is 23+ not balanced, and 2 into 2NT is 22-33, except it doesn't consider 4=5=2=2 to be balanced. So, the only option for it is 1.
I'm guess lycier proposes modifying the limits by 1 HCP to tip this hand into the 2 opener.
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#8 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 03:53

View PostAntrax, on 2014-July-28, 21:15, said:

I would also open 1.

It's not surprising GIB agrees because for GIB 2 and then suit is 23+ not balanced, and 2 into 2NT is 22-33, except it doesn't consider 4=5=2=2 to be balanced. So, the only option for it is 1.
I'm guess lycier proposes modifying the limits by 1 HCP to tip this hand into the 2 opener.


I don't agree.
As we know that Gib 2 and then suit is 19+,not 23+ in GCC.
If 4=5=2=2,Gib usually bid 5-card suit instead of 2NT.
any idea?
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#9 User is online   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 04:08

View Postlycier, on 2014-July-29, 03:53, said:

As we know that Gib 2 and then suit is 19+,not 23+ in GCC.
If 4=5=2=2,Gib usually bid 5-card suit instead of 2NT.
any idea?

Because, as steve2005 points out, in order to show both suits you would have to force to game.

You can have a bit less when you have a one-suiter in hearts or spades because
2*-2*
2-3*
3
is nonforcing. But
2*-2*
2-3*
3
is forcing.
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#10 User is offline   42krunner 

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Posted 2014-July-30, 12:07

I look at that hand. It is a three loser hand. I open 2.

I'd open 4 with that hand before I open 1.
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#11 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-July-30, 12:24

Regardless of how a human would handle this, I think there's a much more simple answer as to why GIB opens 1. GIB wants 23 total points to open 2; this hand has 22HCP, and any points awarded for minor-suit shortnesses are deleted for honors-in-shortnesses.

So, if the major suits were switched, and a human could open 2 then show both majors without forcing game, GIB still would open 1 because he doesn't have 23 total points.

Edit: I now see that this has already been covered above.
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#12 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-July-30, 12:35

View PostAntrax, on 2014-July-28, 21:15, said:

I'm guess lycier proposes modifying the limits by 1 HCP to tip this hand into the 2 opener.
My oft-stated proposal is that stiff-A, Ax, Kx and AK-tight retain their distribution points rather than have them discounted for alleged duplication of values.
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#13 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2014-July-30, 15:02

its just one of the drawbacks of Standard American based systems. Sometimes your stuck and your best choice is to open at the 1 level with a very strong hand. This is one of the benefits of strong club systems it doesn't happen to them.
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#14 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2014-July-30, 16:06

View PostBbradley62, on 2014-July-30, 12:24, said:

Regardless of how a human would handle this, I think there's a much more simple answer as to why GIB opens 1. GIB wants 23 total points to open 2; this hand has 22HCP, and any points awarded for minor-suit shortnesses are deleted for honors-in-shortnesses.

So, if the major suits were switched, and a human could open 2 then show both majors without forcing game, GIB still would open 1 because he doesn't have 23 total points.

Edit: I now see that this has already been covered above.


So playing with GIB we are forced to keep the auction open with 4HCP? Or even a good 3?

I realize that whatever the cut-off there will be a borderline hand. 22 seems a better cutoff than 23 to me. Given the typical Responder structure.
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#15 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2014-July-30, 19:16

View Postbiggerclub, on 2014-July-30, 16:06, said:

So playing with GIB we are forced to keep the auction open with 4HCP? Or even a good 3?

I realize that whatever the cut-off there will be a borderline hand. 22 seems a better cutoff than 23 to me. Given the typical Responder structure.

I did not mean to comment on the appropriateness of 22 vs 23; I was trying to explain how/why GIB took the action he did based on his system.

It's my understanding (I haven't played a f2f tournament in 20 years) that playing with anyone you need to keep the auction open unless the 2 opener rebids 2N.
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#16 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2014-July-30, 20:57

View PostBbradley62, on 2014-July-30, 19:16, said:

It's my understanding (I haven't played a f2f tournament in 20 years) that playing with anyone you need to keep the auction open unless the 2 opener rebids 2N.


My comment about keeping the auction open was directed to those times that GIB opens 1 (or more generally 1 anything).

Yes, of course, over 2, we are forced to keep the auction open with the possible exception of systems that employ double negatives, either in 1 bid (as in 2), or in 2 (as in cheaper minor).

I do not know who is merely expert on GIB ranges (as you are, apparently) and who has some authority for programming GIB. So I was making a suggestion to the latter group that 22 might be a better cut-off than 23. I do know that GIB uses cheaper minor for double negative so it would seem that it could easily handle a 22HCP lower limit to the range.
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