[whereagles]

Hi all. Here's another matchpoints Q.

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1NT = 15-17. May have 5M or 4441 (sing A/K/Q).
2♠ = asks for longer/better minor, may have weak sign-off or slammish.
2NT = longer/better diamonds.

N/S play SAYC, with whatever gadgets over 1NT you like.

North, with +200 on the bag over 1NT, opted for sneakingly pass the opening. But it was not to be. So what now?

[Jinksy]

This probably isn't the kind of answer you're after, but I play penalty X over a strong NT, so would have just done that first time around. That would presumably make my life easier when the bidding came back to me.

[Vampyr]

Jinksy, on 2014-October-31, 07:08, said:

This probably isn't the kind of answer you're after, but I play penalty X over a strong NT, so would have just done that first time around. That would presumably make my life easier when the bidding came back to me.

Probably most people don't have a penalty double available, but do have a way to show a single-major-suited hand. If you bid spades now, partner will be wondering why you didn't bid the first time round. Will she guess correctly and raise with a little something? Probably not, and in any case she doesn't know that you are playing with a 30-point deck. As the Scotsman said to the motorist, I wouldn't start from here, but you are pretty well-placed after the auction so far. Bid 4♠.

[Jinksy]

Given that you have got this far, I don't see much point in bidding now, especially if you're planning to bid 4♠. 2N is obviously F1, so why not let responder tell you which minor he has before placing/playing the contract?

[ggwhiz]

My partnership has the option of overcalling 2♥ (transfer to spades) or double to show a 1-suiter that wants to play for penalty.

I would have doubled with this one. Partner doesn't need much more than a trump stack to double whatever they run to or to raise a 3♠ bid by me later or even back into a heart game.

Pass wasn't "sneaky" just forces me to pin the tail on the donkey now or when 3♦ comes back to me.

[Jinksy]

Incidentally, assuming I'm not playing penalty Xes, pass seems fine to me at MPs, for just the reason whereagles gave. It won't get passed out often, but when it does that should be an easy top, and when it doesn't you and P will have a little more info to play with. Given that you pass then enter at (at least) the three level, P should surely read you for a single-suiter that thought it could make +200 from defending 1N - ie a hand like this.

[Vampyr]

Jinksy, on 2014-October-31, 10:05, said:

Incidentally, assuming I'm not playing penalty Xes, pass seems fine to me at MPs, for just the reason whereagles gave. It won't get passed out often, but when it does that should be an easy top, and when it doesn't you and P will have a little more info to play with. Given that you pass then enter at (at least) the three level, P should surely read you for a single-suiter that thought it could make +200 from defending 1N - ie a hand like this.

I was wondering about this, and you may well be right that partner will figure it out. On the other hand, you need so little from partner for game to be good, and if it is making your +200 or 300 or 400 will not score well. IF people are getting to game. But is the room passing? MP can be a real headache.

[whereagles]

@Vampyr: it's a national-wide simultaneous MP event (~70-80 pairs in 5-6 clubs). Expect the field to be intermediate/advanced, with a few beginners and top experts in the mix.

My impression is that most players would bid something over 1NT.

[mikeh]

I think passing was silly. Yes, we can see that we are going to score 200 on defence and may well score 400 or even more.

However, firstly, why do we think that it is going all pass? Aren't the opponents allowed to bid after 1N? If so, we are giving them room to describe their hands to each other before we bid, while keeping partner in the dark until we finally confuse him with our eventual, and almost certainly unilateral, action.

Secondly, there will be some hands on which +200 or even +400 will be slim compensation, at mps, for not getting +420.

I have felt the urge to make a call (especially a pass) based on the notion that if it goes all pass I get a good result. All too often, in my experience, it doesn't work out.

Methods count, of course, and maybe our methods are such that we couldn't show a powerful hand over 1N without simply blasting game.

Our choices now are more of the deep silent game, hoping to work out more later, or bid something now.

Bidding spades now should/could allow partner to picture that the reason we passed was that we had a running suit and at least 7 tricks against 1N. However, once again my experience is that partners don't always draw the same inference. Maybe he'll reason that we just have a huge number of weak spades and hadn't wanted to pre-empt earlier due to suit quality, if we now bid 3♠.

Passing and then bidding repeats the initial error. It is losing bridge to allow opponents an uncontested auction wherein they closely define their hands and then we take unilateral action. Compare our results to the tables where our hand bid immediately and, in the long run, we fare worse than they do, altho on any given hand anything could happen.

So I bid 4♠ now, regretting that I didn't take earlier action.

[whereagles]

mikeh, on 2014-October-31, 13:02, said:

firstly, why do we think that it is going all pass?

I dunno, I was West. But I can ask North tonight, if you want

[mikeh]

whereagles, on 2014-October-31, 13:29, said:

I dunno, I was West. But I can ask North tonight, if you want

It was what is known as a rhetorical question. I don't need an answer.

[the hog]

I would have bid immediately. An immediate pass is the bid made typically by a very poor player who is trying to be clever. As Mikeh points out it rarely works. Even with a penalty x available, I think this is also a very silly call to make on the first round in my opinion. Why give the opps room? It would seem that some players here like to play with themselves and do not realise that 4 people at each table are playing. I would have shown S or S and a minor and then raised to the 3 level.The exact bid depends on methods.

[SteveMoe]

Bid immediately.
My partners and I play Meckwell over strong NT (Double = long minor or both Majors, 2♣/♦ DONT; 2♥/♠ natural). However we use 2N as lebensohl to make a 3-level preempt. That leaves 3-level bids as natural with Meckwell meaning but showing a 4 loser hands. So we'd bid 3♠ here directly, allowing partner to assess fit and game prospects.

[AyunuS]

Just bid 4♠. With that hand, it's going to work most of the time. And considering that so many tables are going to bid 4♠, anything fewer and you're going to get a bad score in MPs. If you double they can probably run to some suit, and doubling a suit you're short in isn't likely going to get you as many points as 4♠.

You have the advantage of passing earlier so you look like an idiot and someone might double your 4♠ bid, too. This would let you beat the other 4♠ bidders which would get you a ton of MPs.

[gnasher]

Are we really expecting to make 4♠? On average partner has a 4-count, and it's likely that some of his strength will be in diamonds. We have five very small cards to deal with. It seems optimistic to assume that partner will be able to deal with two of them.

With the auction as it's gone, I'd bid 3♠. Partner may look at me as though I'm insane, shrug his shoulders, and put dummy down. Or he may think about what I might have for this sequence and come up with the right answer. What else could I possibly have?

Another possibility is to double 2NT and then bid 3♠. Usually that sort of action means (in my world) a flexible hand, but that's not really possibly when we've passed 1NT, so maybe this shows a stronger 3♠ bid.

[Trump Echo]

The poll doesn't make sense atm. Only 2 people passed, but 15 people are bidding after their pass.

...

I'd double 1 NT, not knowing how the remaining strength is distributed, and expecting a chance to bid again. My next bid would depend on what happens, but I'd expect to end up in Spades short of game.

[MrAce]

Trump Echo, on 2014-November-01, 05:26, said:

The poll doesn't make sense atm. Only 2 people passed, but 15 people are bidding after their pass.

I am afraid you are wrong

1st question is asking whether we pass or bid over 1 NT.
2nd question forces us to pretend as if we passed previously and asks what to do now.

It does not say "reply 2nd question if you passed in previously and do not reply if you bid previously"
But I maybe the one who is wrong, after all it is your native language.

[AyunuS]

gnasher, on 2014-November-01, 03:57, said:

Are we really expecting to make 4♠?

Well, you may be correct. I'd like to know more about what 2♠ meant. If it means at least 4 clubs, then you probably can't make 4♠. But if there's still good hope that neither opponent holds more than 3 clubs, then 4♠ has good chances since you'll have 1 fewer loss in clubs as the 4th round is a free win.

[Fluffy]

ggwhiz, on 2014-October-31, 08:58, said:

My partnership has the option of overcalling 2♥ (transfer to spades) or double to show a 1-suiter that wants to play for penalty.

I would have doubled with this one. Partner doesn't need much more than a trump stack to double whatever they run to or to raise a 3♠ bid by me later or even back into a heart game.

Pass wasn't "sneaky" just forces me to pin the tail on the donkey now or when 3♦ comes back to me.

On this hand I would focus on rightsiding 4sp] giving up an unlikelly penalty double having a void.

[ggwhiz]

Fluffy, on 2014-November-01, 09:22, said:

On this hand I would focus on rightsiding 4sp] giving up an unlikelly penalty double having a void.

Very tempting to right side it but you probably have to blast to game to get there and hope partner is not broke.

Double followed by a jump to 3♠ is a lot safer for me than most with a VERY aggressive partner that will accept with 1/4 of a reason.