[xx1943]

IMPs

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[aguahombre]

2♥ is in range at these colors. It doesn't over-emphasize the quality of the Spade suit and the power of the hand, like it would if I overcalled 1S and then had a chance to bid diamonds. What's not to like? Is there a fear that we haven't agreed on Michaels?

[xx1943]

aguahombre, on 2014-November-02, 08:32, said:

2♥ is in range at these colors. It doesn't over-emphasize the quality of the Spade suit and the power of the hand, like it would if I overcalled 1S and then had a chance to bid diamonds. What's not to like? Is there a fear that we haven't agreed on Michaels?

Michaels shows a) below opening-strength OR b) 16+ HCP imho.

[aguahombre]

xx1943, on 2014-November-02, 09:38, said:

Michaels shows a) below opening-strength OR b) 16+ HCP imho.

You might want to revise that opinion. We play "split range" as well, while recognizing "wide-range" to be more popular among the very good and the not-so-good.

But, I really believe Split-range should be either a monster (not just a mere 16+ bean count), or --on the low end--something appropriate to the Vulnerability. When red, this includes some opening bid quality hands.

The in-betweener hands which would just overcall prepared to bid the minor voluntarily at the 3-level would include 16+ hands.

[fromageGB]

This is too strong (or too weak) for a Michaels, by my reckoning, so I want to bid both suits. For two reasons I bid diamonds first : I am expecting to bid spades next, so this keeps the bidding lower; and I would like a diamond lead if responder ends in a contract.

[aguahombre]

fromageGB, on 2014-November-02, 10:29, said:

This is too strong (or too weak) for a Michaels, by my reckoning, so I want to bid both suits. For two reasons I bid diamonds first : I am expecting to bid spades next, so this keeps the bidding lower; and I would like a diamond lead if responder ends in a contract.

We can easily see that most likely RHO's hearts will be raised to some level. Your oppportunity to bid again here might well be at the 4-level. I don't like to mastermind, but would prefer to let my passed-hand partner in on the nature of my distribution, knowing I saw we were Red vs. White, and be the wildcard.

[fromageGB]

aguahombre, on 2014-November-02, 11:09, said:

We can easily see that most likely RHO's hearts will be raised to some level. Your oppportunity to bid again here might well be at the 4-level. I don't like to mastermind, but would prefer to let my passed-hand partner in on the nature of my distribution, knowing I saw we were Red vs. White, and be the wildcard.

It'a an argument, but I would not be wanting to bid spades at the 4-level, nor would I want my partner to compete that high if he couldn't open a weak 2. Better to keep quiet about the spades, in my view, and let the distribution be a surprise for declarer - hopefully a nasty one.

[whereagles]

easy michaels, on wide-ranging grounds

[beatrix45]

One simple ♠. Not ready to give up on even a 3♣ part score. A preemptive type of bidding seems wrong in this situation. I am neither telling nor asking at this point.

[helene_t]

Obviously it depends on agreements. I prefer Michaels to show this strength when vulnerable.

[xx1943]

What about double (with EQUAL-LEVEL-CONVERSION)?

[aguahombre]

xx1943, on 2014-November-03, 03:02, said:

What about double (with EQUAL-LEVEL-CONVERSION)?

Some people would prefer to show 5-5 in the two suits rather than something like 4-1-6-2.

[neilkaz]

whereagles, on 2014-November-02, 17:30, said:

easy michaels, on wide-ranging grounds

We agree.

[mikeh]

Even if one had agreed, in principle, to play split range michaels, and even if one agreed that this hand falls in the middle, I would still advocate for a michaels bid.

Partner is a passed hand. We rate not to make game opposite a minimum competitive decision by him, which is a concern that the split-range advocates have when holding an in-between hand. Advancer can hold a fairly good hand and be conservative because we are either weak or will take another call, and he can catch up. His being a passed hand slightly reduces that fear, since one of the 'go-low' hand-types is opening values with no real fit. He can't hold that now.

Our spades are very weak. Overcalling spades overstates the suit and probably loses the diamonds forever. We can expect more heart bidding....yes, maybe partner has 5 of them but the betting money is that the opps can bid hearts to at least the 3-level, and we are never going to be comfortable showing diamonds later, having started spades. We could bid spades then double but that suggests something like 6=1=3=3 or 51(43) and we'll get to a bad 5-2 spade fit rather than a good 5-3 diamond fit all too often (and other bad things could happen as well).

Overcalling diamonds then bidding spades shows a failure to understand shape. Yes, it is probably 'convenient', but we don't want partner pulling to diamonds on 3=3 hands and probably not on 3=4 or even 3=5 hands, since we have to take more tricks in diamonds to avoid a minus score (possibly a big one).

Overcalling diamonds and never bidding spades shows a failure to understand the scoring table

As it happens, I used to be a split-range bidder, but no more. I'm happy with a vulnerable michaels, especially with such a weak spade suit.

[aguahombre]

The thing is: If you are a split range person you bid 2H at these colors; if you are a wide range person, you bid 2H as well. So, it is a 2H bid.