[whereagles]

Case at hand: (NV, IMPs, dealer South)

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I think most would open 1♥ if hearts were AQ8765. But how about as it stands?

1, 2 or pass + bid hearts later?

[jallerton]

Am I dealer? What's the vulnerability?

[whereagles]

That didn't come off in script. Fixed now.

[blackshoe]

This fits my agreements with all my partners for a 2♥ opening, so I open 2♥. I also think it's just a tad weak for 1♥.

[Cthulhu D]

Playing a system where I can open a weak 2 in hearts I will do so and this is a maximum. I like preemption more because it's not 2nd in and I have a stiff spade. If it's right to compete in hearts partner will have a better idea if I open with 6 than pass it.

[steve2005]

Maybe if was AJT9xx, but really this is just a nice weak 2. even AQ missing J T & 9 would still be a weak 2

[MrAce]

1♥

[nige1]

whereagles, on 2014-November-16, 16:47, said:

Case at hand: (NV, IMPs, dealer South)
I think most would open 1♥ if hearts were AQ8765. But how about as it stands?
1, 2 or pass + bid hearts later?

---

IMO 1♥ = 10, 2♥ = 8, Pass = 7.
I don't like the idea of hands in the gap between 1♥ and 2♥ but I'm unsure what you should do 2nd seat, vul, with
♠ 7 ♥ A 6 5 4 3 2 ♦ A T 9 ♣ T 9 7

[kenrexford]

1H for me. Switch minors, 2H. Rebid issue.

[mike777]

1h

6-4 with all of our9 hcp in our suits.

[akwoo]

I really don't get 1♥ here, at least playing 2/1.

You really want partner to force you to game on ♠KQxx ♥xx ♦Qx ♣KQJxx? And that's not even the worse game force partner could have!

Even with the Q, I consider this a 2♥ bid playing 2/1. I'd consider 1♥ playing Acol.

[MrAce]

akwoo, on 2014-November-17, 00:38, said:

I really don't get 1♥ here, at least playing 2/1.

You really want partner to force you to game on ♠KQxx ♥xx ♦Qx ♣KQJxx? And that's not even the worse game force partner could have!

Even with the Q, I consider this a 2♥ bid playing 2/1. I'd consider 1♥ playing Acol.

It's not about acol or 2/1, it is about hand evaluation. I can play hand constructing game all day long with you and believe me I will beat you in that game. God help to those whose pd can hold this when coming from pass or when open a so called weak 2. But if you are playing ACOL, this hand looks like strong 2 more than weak 2 to me.

GIB passes hands similar to this. I see everyday scores like 1♥+4 when 3rd seat opener passes his pd's 1♥. I also see them making game tries incase pd holds this type of hand, where they end too high at 3 level. I also see some playing 2♥ making +2 after a weak 2 opening, or going down in 2 ♥ when they were cold for ♦ slam. One day people will wake up about how many bad scores they get just simply due to not recognizing the importance of definition of a passed hand. They worry a hand where pd will force to game with 13+ and game will not make, while ignoring the games or slams that can be found vs a very little, but most importantly they ignore how much trouble they create to themselves because when their pd comes from pass or opens a weak 2, he can hold this or similar hands.

KNR says this hand is worth 13 hcp by the way.

[Cthulhu D]

MrAce, on 2014-November-17, 00:54, said:

It's not about acol or 2/1, it is about hand evaluation. I can play hand constructing game all day long with you and believe me I will beat you in that game. God help to those whose pd can hold this when coming from pass or when open a so called weak 2. But if you are playing ACOL, this hand looks like strong 2 more than weak 2 to me.

GIB passes hands similar to this. I see everyday scores like 1♥+4 when 3rd seat opener passes his pd's 1♥. I also see them making game tries incase pd holds this type of hand, where they end too high at 3 level. I also see some playing 2♥ making +2 after a weak 2 opening, or going down in 2 ♥ when they were cold for ♦ slam. One day people will wake up about how many bad scores they get just simply due to not recognizing the importance of definition of a passed hand. They worry a hand where pd will force to game with 13+ and game will not make, while ignoring the games or slams that can be found vs a very little, but most importantly they ignore how much trouble they create to themselves because when their pd comes from pass or opens a weak 2, he can hold this or similar hands.

KNR says this hand is worth 13 hcp by the way.

What's your rebid plan for the hand after 1S and a semi forcing 1NT? I'm mostly interested in if you are going to show diamonds or just show hearts.

[the hog]

2H. Too weak for 1H, especially playing 2/1.
Revising Nigel's scores. 2H = 10, 1H = 4, Pass = 2.

[MrAce]

Cthulhu D, on 2014-November-18, 18:11, said:

What's your rebid plan for the hand after 1S and a semi forcing 1NT? I'm mostly interested in if you are going to show diamonds or just show hearts.

I will rebid hearts. I do not mind rebidding diamonds. I will just treat this hand as if I hold 10-11 less quality hcps.

What you asked is a good question though. IF I remember correctly, about 20 years ago, I read an article about opening 1♥ and rebidding 2♦ or 2♥ with 6-4 weak hands. I do not remember what kind of analysis it was and who wrote it. But it was basically saying that the difference in IMPS is almost none in long run, at MP 2♥ was slightly winner.

[Cthulhu D]

MrAce, on 2014-November-18, 18:41, said:

I will rebid hearts. I do not mind rebidding diamonds. I will just treat this hand as if I hold 10-11 less quality hcps.

What you asked is a good question though. IF I remember correctly, about 20 years ago, I read an article about opening 1♥ and rebidding 2♦ or 2♥ with 6-4 weak hands. I do not remember what kind of analysis it was and who wrote it. But it was basically saying that the difference in IMPS is almost none in long run, at MP 2♥ was slightly winner.

I guess this is a related question, if you have transfers after 1H-1S (denying 5 spades), so you can bid 2C to show 4 diamonds then correct to 2D to 2H would you do that? I mean, the power of this hand is not just the 6 card hearts, it's got useful red suits so I feel like if I open 1H (and I have a lot of sympathy for your point after thinking about it), I'm kinda wondering how to best communicate the hand to partner, do you get the diamonds in the picture or is it just hearts. I think if partner bids spades naturally it's better just to bid hearts, give up on the diamonds and hope you can bail on the auction ASAP because your hand is quite a bit worse (particularly if partner promises 5 spades).

[Siegmund]

"Too strong" for 2 and too weak for 1? No, there isn't.
But there are hands which have their values in the wrong place for a preempt, which are too weak for 1. I am willing to open a weak two with two aces, but not a 3- or 4-bid.

I pass Jxxxxx xx Kxx KQx, but it's not because it is "too strong" for 2S.

[gwnn]

A nice hand for two weak two's (2D 4-7 2M 8-11). As it is I bid 2H but I hate it. Definitely 1H with a void. Argh but it's such a nice hand! And I don't want Timo to stop playing with me! 1H it is.

[P_Marlowe]

Pass.

For us the hand would qualify for 3H, which I would not do, it would be super max for 2H,
hence I am also not doing it.
We would open 2H in 2nd, but not in 1st.

Overruling factors maybe trying to follow the field, ...

Playing with a pickup partner, I would open 2H.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[navahak]

3♥