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Matchpoint bidding question 7

Poll: Matchpoint bidding question 7 (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Your call?

  1. Pass (2 votes [6.90%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.90%

  2. 3S (24 votes [82.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 82.76%

  3. 4S (3 votes [10.34%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.34%

  4. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 11:17

Matchpoints, 1N is 12-14. 3S is your only available invitational bid.


The "4♥ is a transfer to 4♠" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#2 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 11:19

3s don't see the problem!
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#3 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 11:28

Yeah, I think 3♠ is clear, but MP bidding still weirds me out sometimes. Andrew Robson's recent advice was 'don't invite game at MPs'.
The "4♥ is a transfer to 4♠" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#4 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 12:20

View PostJinksy, on 2014-November-29, 11:28, said:

Yeah, I think 3♠ is clear, but MP bidding still weirds me out sometimes. Andrew Robson's recent advice was 'don't invite game at MPs'.


This is plain silly, you are playing in a uniform field so you do the same as the field. Robson's advice might apply on top level competition or where many different styles are at stake, at an ACOL club it is ridicoulous.
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#5 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 12:35

View PostJinksy, on 2014-November-29, 11:17, said:


Matchpoints, 1N is 12-14. 3S is your only available invitational bid.
IMO 3♠ = 10, Pass = 9, 4♠ = 7.
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#6 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 12:58

View PostJinksy, on 2014-November-29, 11:28, said:

Andrew Robson's recent advice was 'don't invite game at MPs'.

I think his advice was not to use specific trial bids at MPs. The idea being that the trial bid gives away information which can help the defense so you might as well pass or blast.

If anything I think invites make more sense at MPs than at IMPs. At IMPs, inviting is significantly better than blasting only when partner declines and he makes exactly nine tricks and the invite didn't give a trick away. At MPs the invite also gains when you have eight tricks and partner declines and a significant part of the field is in either -50 or -100.
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#7 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 13:33

View Posthelene_t, on 2014-November-29, 12:58, said:

I think his advice was not to use specific trial bids at MPs. The idea being that the trial bid gives away information which can help the defense so you might as well pass or blast.

If anything I think invites make more sense at MPs than at IMPs. At IMPs, inviting is significantly better than blasting only when partner declines and he makes exactly nine tricks and the invite didn't give a trick away. At MPs the invite also gains when you have eight tricks and partner declines and a significant part of the field is in either -50 or -100.


This makes not much sense either because, if you are aware of information leak you will often just throw fake invitatioanls here and there to compensate.
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#8 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 13:35

Passing is unilateral as is bidding game: this hand is a textbook example of an action I tend not to use much: an invitational raise. I'd rather bid game than pass, but I'd rather invite than bid game, by a wide margin. I suspect the problem setters had an agenda on this one, and that they don't like the invite...it is so obvious that the problem makes no sense otherwise.

At imps, bid game.
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#9 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 13:38

I have sympathy for pass but I would invite. You have good intermediates and values.
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#10 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 16:06

Playing a strong NT, if partner opened 1 of a minor and raised our 1♠ response to 2, this would be a completely normal invite.

Here, we are in a slightly better place since we know partner has four spades. While we don't know how our hand fits our opponents are leading in the dark.

I'd invite, but, like Mike, I would just punt game at IMPs.
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#11 User is offline   WesleyC 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 20:55

3S at MPs
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#12 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-November-29, 23:19

If you are not going to invite, then why did you look for a 4 card Major? Pass over 1NT makes more sense than passing now.
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#13 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2014-November-30, 01:45

Even the majority of the grannies will raise, and I back their judgement.
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#14 User is offline   kuhchung 

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Posted 2014-November-30, 01:46

would have passed 1N heh. still tempted to pass here, but I don't know
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#15 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-November-30, 03:21

View Posteagles123, on 2014-November-29, 11:19, said:

3s don't see the problem!


4♠ don't see the problem!

Posted Image

Why? I counted 7 losers.
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#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2014-November-30, 07:51

View Postwhereagles, on 2014-November-30, 03:21, said:

4♠ don't see the problem!

Posted Image

Why? I counted 7 losers.
I think you have it wrong Nuno, balanced hands, even with a major suit fit are better estimated with HCP than LTC. In the end most often you are just playing 3NT with the ability to ruff a third round of something once.
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#17 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-November-30, 09:48

well.. the game depends on heart wastage across. Good mins make good game, bad maxs make bad game.

so I play the LTC odds and shoot 4 :)
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#18 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2014-November-30, 10:09

View PostFluffy, on 2014-November-29, 12:20, said:

This is plain silly, you are playing in a uniform field so you do the same as the field. Robson's advice might apply on top level competition or where many different styles are at stake, at an ACOL club it is ridicoulous.


Robson's advice applies to all levels. Every time you invite you aid two opponents on how to defend. You only assist one partner in the bidding. When you never invite, it makes it harder for opponents to defend. Declarer's hand remains the wider 12-14.
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#19 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2014-November-30, 10:16

View Postjogs, on 2014-November-30, 10:09, said:

Robson's advice applies to all levels. Every time you invite you aid two opponents on how to defend. You only assist one partner in the bidding. When you never invite, it makes it harder for opponents to defend. Declarer's hand remains the wider 12-14.

As I said to Helene, all you gotta do to negate the info is to put fake game tries here and there.
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#20 User is offline   StevenG 

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Posted 2014-November-30, 10:38

View Postwhereagles, on 2014-November-30, 09:48, said:

well.. the game depends on heart wastage across. Good mins make good game, bad maxs make bad game.

so I play the LTC odds and shoot 4 :)

A 12-14 1NT is frequently an 8-loser hand.
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