[mike777]

imps fav vul.

K95...732...QJT4...KQ4


1c=(2h)=?

if it matters you may assume pard opens sound.

[P_Marlowe]

X

I wont pass, this leaves X.
If partner opens sound, this improves the attractivity of bidding.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[wank]

pass.

they're at unfav. either partner is short and can act or he's not in which case we either have a bag of crap or they're going for 100s.

[WesleyC]

I'd pass.

On a related note, several top pairs have started using a lebensohl style 2NT over a re-opening double in sequences like this. Such an agreement would be pretty handy on the next round of this auction.

[mike777]

WesleyC, on 2015-April-15, 22:25, said:

I'd pass.

On a related note, several top pairs have started using a lebensohl style 2NT over a re-opening double in sequences like this. Such an agreement would be pretty handy on the next round of this auction.

??

how so?


we know pard opens sound
we know if pard doubles in pass out seat what does lebensohl mean?


what is your point?

[WesleyC]

I'm suggesting that if this auction continues:

1C (2H) P (P)
X (P) ???

playing with no special agreements, you have no convenient way to show your values.

However, in response to the reopening double, it's possible to play 2NT as artificial (typically weak), with other bids showing constructive values. That would allow you to bid 3C/3D on this hand.

I'd never seen this treatment before, and just read about a hand from the Spingold Final where Helgemo/Helness & Brogeland/Lindqvist had identical auctions to 3C after:

1S (2H) P (P)
X (P) 3C* (showing values)

and both pairs were playing this method.

[mike777]

WesleyC, on 2015-April-16, 00:14, said:

I'm suggesting that if this auction continues:

1C (2H) P (P)
X (P) ???

playing with no special agreements, you have no way to show your values.

However, it's possible to play 2NT as artificial (typically weak), with other bids showing constructive values which would allow you to bid 3C/3D on this hand.

I mentioned it because I just saw a hand from the Spingold where Helgemo/Helness & Brogeland/Lindqvist had identical auctions to 3C after:

1S (2H) P (P)
X (P) 3C* (showing values)

and both pairs were playing this method.

I don't get it...

not our auction...
.pard shows real hand....on top of opening sound
agree pard will reopen with short h
pard may jump if you neg x....he already open sound.

you have 11
-------


any way thought tough hand....I could play better, much better

[WesleyC]

For many people the reopening double here would not show extra values. My style is that any hand with 4135 (or similiar) shape is obligated to re-open with a double. If partner has more heart length or worse shape they should have a little extra.

[Cyberyeti]

WesleyC, on 2015-April-16, 00:24, said:

For many people the reopening double here would not show extra values. My style is that any hand with 4135 (or similiar) shape is obligated to re-open with a double. If partner has more heart length or worse shape they should have a little extra.

Exactly, we play leb (in fact reverse leb) in this situation and the double doesn't guarantee extras.

[rhm]

P_Marlowe, on 2015-April-15, 14:27, said:

X

I wont pass, this leaves X.
If partner opens sound, this improves the attractivity of bidding.

With kind regards
Marlowe

One of the worst things you can do is making a negative double with a limited hand, when holding less than 4 cards in the remaining unbid major.
This is really asking for a disaster to happen.
Just consider your options when next opponent (jump)raises the preempt and then doubles partners spade bid.
Not very hard to predict how the play will go.
Even if you and partner have the values for game it is the type of hand where you might go for a telephone number.

I think pass stands out and is only a problem for those, who believe pass denies values (rather then not promising any).
Anyway, this hand is very defensive in nature and no game is likely unless partner is very distributional or has substantially more than an opening bid.
Most players are too aggressive with 4333. Point count can be deceptive.

Rainer Herrmann

[mike777]

thanks all for the responses.

On the hand pard did make a neg x and I rebid 3s and he passed. We had 27 hcp but can make no game.

If I gave the hand more thought I can make it by:
1) dummy reversal and
2) play 2h bidder for As.

I note Mr. Roth the inventor said to his last days that is promises values not the other suits but consider pass or negx when you have no convenient bid.