[kenrexford]

Trying to figure out what bids mean by referring to a hand that you cannot have seems counterproductive and illogical. In other words, there is no way to show this hand, because you cannot have this hand. Moreover, Opener cannot be looking for this hand, because you cannot have it.

A splinter should look like Hxxx-x-Hxxx-Hxxx, right? In that context, what would 5C be telling or asking? Asking about a control seems silly to me, largely because the answer is yes I have a control there every time you will ask, so why ask?

More likely, especially if you splinter with side Queens, is that Opener has a double ton (or stiff) on the outside and wants to know if you have the wrong Queen. With 5224, especially, partner might want you to have the club Queen rather than the diamond Queen.

My take, then, is that 5C is an exotic call. Whether you call it a Rexfordian Implied Queen Asking Bid (RIQAB), or by its less common name ("natural, with clubs"), is up to you.

[gnasher]

mikeh, on 2015-July-22, 15:43, said:

J2N is not a 'telling' action. It doesn't seek cooperation...it seeks specific information, the nature of which depends on your J2N structure. J2N is an asking bid, not a descriptive bid.

That may be true for many partnerships, but that's a decision they made when they chose their continuations after 2NT, or perhaps when they decided on their partnership's philosophy. It's not a fundamental characteristic of auctions that start 1M-2NT.

When I bid J2N I'm making a descriptive bid and seeking an exchange of information, as part of the cooperative auction that partner started when he opened the bidding.

[Trinidad]

mikeh, on 2015-July-21, 15:04, said:

Had we responded 2♦ then over 2N or 2♠ we bid 3♠ to show a hand with 5+ diamonds, game force values and slam interest.

I can see that you want to respond 2♦ to emphasize the diamond suit. (I think, though, that your case isn't as strong as many believe it to be.)

But I fail to see why you would follow up with 3♠ after partner's 2♠ or 2NT rebid. The least you could do is use a second round splinter of 4♥:

1♠-2♦
2♠/NT-4♥

You have emphasized the diamond suit.
You have shown support.
You have shown heart shortness.
In addition, depending on partnership style, you may have limited your hand.

If you rebid 3♠, you deny a hand that can splinter. In addition, since your hand can be balanced (even 3=3=4=3) you do not emphasize the diamond suit as much.

--------------

I would certainly not argue with a 2♦ response. But with the hand from the OP, there is not really a reason to emphasize the diamonds, is there? The suit will provide tricks whether partner has the ace or not. Even opposite a void the suit will help towards 12 tricks. If the diamond suit were broken, something like e.g KJxxxx, then it is adamant to show the diamond suit. Partner is supposed to upgrade "soft values" in diamonds (and downgrade soft values in clubs and hearts). On the hand in the OP, partner won't have any soft values to upgrade, since we already have them ourselves.

Rik

[benlessard]

Imo splinters should be only voids or only singleton, not one or the other.

I prefer all my splinters in any auction are voids for a couple of years now and the results so far with this method are too good to be true.

Hands with singleton tend to be better by going slow anyway (sometimes opps find a save however) and hands with voids we our long run result just humiliate the other tables.

When its 1M--4m--4NT at both table and we have a void it tend to give us a bunch of imps on average.

I guess a big part of the standard problem is that after a splinter the standard 14-30-2 is a lame method. It should be replaced by sometimes wich allow void showing.

something like
1 may or may not have void (cheapest bid ask for void not the Q of trumps).
1+Q (may or may not have void)
0
rest is 2+

[gszes]

wbaker, on 2015-July-22, 15:19, said:

5!s would be the call I have already bid the extent of my values let partner decide. However I must agree with previous comments 4!hs would not be my call. Instead I would bid 2nt yes Jac. 2nt no my hand is not flat but now partner can see if he has slam interest if so he can start the cooperation. If not he will just bid game.

That is where the problem lies-- say you hold A5432 543 A32 A3 (as opener and hear J2n) is this a 4s bid? if so you miss a pretty easy 7s.

[PhilKing]

gszes, on 2015-July-27, 10:32, said:

That is where the problem lies-- say you hold A5432 543 A32 A3 (as opener and hear J2n) is this a 4s bid? if so you miss a pretty easy 7s.

No. In my view, jumping to 4M denies 2 aces. Doing so with three would be rather strange.

[lamford]

I think it is better to play 5H as "reverse last train", a puppet to 5S, either sign off or GS-try. That releases 5S to be a slam-try. If those are our methods, I bid 5S. If 5H is last train, I think I still bid 5S.

[Fluffy]

It seems that it is not standard but I bypass controls to show voids, so I would bid 5♥ previous round.

[benlessard]

Quote

No. In my view, jumping to 4M denies 2 aces. Doing so with three would be rather strange.

Do anyone remember a hand that had a lot of discussion.

It was something like

1S-2Nt-3C-3D-??--4S

J2nt, 3C was minimum with shortness, 3D was asking about where the shortness and opener showed H shortness responder had ♥AKQx and not that much extras so signed off.

Opener had

Axxxx
---
Axxx
Axxx

My view was that hands with 3 aces are never minimum hands when you are in the slam zone.

[ladydoc]

The bidding was wrong by north. He should bite the bullet and bid 6 spades, and learn a better system.

In our system with this hand we employ an "underjump" shift...
ie South opens 1 Spade, responders bid of 3 hearts says, limit raise, four or more spades, and a singleton or void somewhere. There now, you get a whole level of bidding to further describe. If opener wants to know where is your shortness he bids three spades, asking... You get to six legitimately if six is there.

[Zelandakh]

benlessard, on 2015-July-26, 09:45, said:

Imo splinters should be only voids or only singleton, not one or the other.

I prefer all my splinters in any auction are voids for a couple of years now and the results so far with this method are too good to be true.

You can achieve both easily enough Ben. Depending on whether you prefer efficiency of space or leakage you might use responses to a 1♠ opening of:-

3NT = any void splinter (4♣ asks, then 4♦♥ = that void; 4♠ = ♣ void)
4♣♦♥ = singleton splinter

or

3NT = any singleton splinter (4♣ asks, then 4♦♥ = that singleton; 4♠ = singleton ♣)
4♣♦♥ = void splinter

You can combine this with 1♠ - 3♥ as any maxi splinter or 1♠ - 2NT as any mini or maxi splinter to get complete coverage of all splinter ranges with separation between singletons and voids.

Of course you could also divide the hands up differently, for example by making the immediate calls above 3♠ all show a void:-

3NT = any void maxi-splinter (4♣ asks, then 4♦♥ = that void; 4♠ = ♣ void)
4♣♦♥ = void splinter

...and use, say, 2NT or 3♥ to handle singletons. This makes the direct splinters very rare of course but might be just the sort of structure that works for you.