Semi-forcing NT vs Forcing NT
#1
Posted 2017-August-12, 08:12
I would really love to hear your opinions about this stuff. What are the advantages and disadvantages of both methods and which of these 2 is superior? Since i began to play bridge 2 years ago I always played Semi-forcing NT. Now I'm thinking of switching it to Forcing just as i changed my 1♣ opening a little bit.
#2
Posted 2017-August-12, 09:06
#3
Posted 2017-August-12, 09:51
Well, maybe I prefer NF even with the 3c limit raise in 1N. I often pass GiB's forcing 1N for fear that I will end up in 2N or 3M otherwise.
#4
Posted 2017-August-12, 10:34
The method you would use depends on the rest of your system.
#5
Posted 2017-August-12, 11:09
to reach a bid above 1 NT, and is sure, that he will reach it.
This usually is done to differentiate raises of openers major, e.g.
constructive / garbage raises to 2M, a 3M limit raise with 3 / 4 card
support, ..., including certain balanced hands to free up the 2NT /
3NT (less common).
The disadvantage of a forcing NT is, you cant play 1NT, a common MP
convern. Also if you include to many hand type in the forcing NT response
it may causes trouble, if the auction gets competitive.
The advantage of the semiforcing NT bid is, that you can play 1 NT, the
disadvantage is, the amount of hand types, that can be included in the
hands that go through 1NT is limited (10-12 bal., limit raise with 3 cards).
You loose the garbage raises, i.e. you reduce frequency, but their risk
that an intervention backfires increases.
There is also the risk of play 1NT(+1), when you could make 3M, but sometimes
you cant make 3M, so this basically neutral.
With kind regards
Marlowe
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#7
Posted 2017-August-12, 15:27
We are talking about four different systems here, but the main difference is that the Precision system had limited 5M openings.
With 2/1 it all depends on other conventions and other stuff (e.g. constructive raises, etc.) that you build round it I feel.
Personally, and this is just my honest view, I've never been a ardent fan of the 2/1 forcing 1NT response as a glove that has to fit many 6-11 point hands that can't bid otherwise. This is why I was interested in other commentators' views on an earlier thread.
http://www.bridgebas...__1#entry927986
There are some excellent comments here too.
#8
Posted 2017-August-12, 16:19
#9
Posted 2017-August-12, 16:30
Keep in mind you will still rebid with 2 decent suits or more than a dead minimum. In any event you will be surprised how seldom passing 1nt comes up in practice. Please keep in mind playing this style you are pushing many hand types through 1nt.
OTOH if you open pretty sound you will never want to pass so forcing 1nt makes more sense.
#10
Posted 2017-August-12, 17:34
#11
Posted 2017-August-12, 17:46
CSGibson, on 2017-August-12, 17:34, said:
I don't play a forcing NT, but I think it works quite well with a weak NT. opener does not have to find another bid when holding a weak NT; he is already there.
#12
Posted 2017-August-12, 18:14
for starters you seldom pass, you do not repeat do not pass with say a typical 12-14 weak nt hand.
IN practice you only pass with a really crappy, junky hand. Please note this means you open really crappy , junky hands.
#13
Posted 2017-August-12, 18:18
Stephen Tu, on 2017-August-12, 16:19, said:
Thanks Stephen. Having looked on Bridgeguys, it seems 2/1 is based on Roth-Stone except HCP opening bids are now lower. Wasn't familiar with Roth-Stone mechanics where their 2 over 1 bid is GF. They do say you learn something every day.
#14
Posted 2017-August-12, 18:29
The_Badger, on 2017-August-12, 18:18, said:
hmmm 2/1 is not game force in roth stone....
think about that
opener is known to be sound, old fashion sound and yet your 2/1 is not gf
as a result fewer hand types go dthrough forcing nt.
------------
2/1 is based on what used to be called Walsh....butof course borrows from many others.
#15
Posted 2017-August-13, 00:28
The latter situation is a lot rarer, especially since opponents often bid in such situations. So I prefer semi-forcing.
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
#16
Posted 2017-August-13, 03:18
nullve, on 2017-August-12, 13:13, said:
At least with MP scoring, I would say this is avg-. You risk often going for 150, when they have nothing, this
assumes, that you are green, going for -200, when you are red is also nothing to cheer about.
That being said, you also have gains, so take your pick, see what works for you in the enviroment you play.
With kind regards
Marlowe
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#17
Posted 2017-August-13, 03:25
mike777, on 2017-August-12, 18:14, said:
May well be true, since I dont like the term semiforcing.
I used to say, this is the same as saying being semi / half pregnant, ... but semi / half pregnant
exist, unfortunately I did not yet find a meaningful replacement for pregnant.
For me semiforcing means, that you include some inv. hand, that are usually not part of a nonforcing NT,
but that you are allowed, even expected to pass the 1NT response with a weak NT hand.
In short, before we discuss forcing / semiforcing / nonforcing, we need to clarify, what we mean by it.
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#18
Posted 2017-August-13, 04:38
Kapi Blas, on 2017-August-12, 08:12, said:
I would really love to hear your opinions about this stuff. What are the advantages and disadvantages of both methods and which of these 2 is superior? Since i began to play bridge 2 years ago I always played Semi-forcing NT. Now I'm thinking of switching it to Forcing just as i changed my 1♣ opening a little bit.
#19
Posted 2017-August-13, 05:16
steve2005, on 2017-August-12, 10:34, said:
The method you would use depends on the rest of your system.
Semi-Forcing is the term commonly employed for a non forcing NT response, both are the same - meaning opener is not forced to response on min balanced hands.
_________________
Valiant were the efforts of the declarer // to thwart the wiles of the defender // however, as the cards lay // the contract had no play // except through the eyes of a kibitzer.
#20
Posted 2017-August-13, 06:14
P_Marlowe, on 2017-August-12, 11:09, said:
concern.
Combine it with Kaplan inversion, and you bring back playing in 1NT over hearts, and played the right way round, too.
I think the advantages or having double the precision of major raises outweighs disadvantages. For me 1M 2M is 7-10 hcp if 3-card, which makes game decisions easy. Without forcing NT things are too vague. Also included in 1NT are balanced hands up to 15 hcp (16+ included in the 2♣ response), which enables fit finding and discovery of better resting places. When 2♣ then 2NT shows 16+, there is better distinction between game and slam.