[deftist]

Hello all,

I just started playing bridge about a week ago. I am a professional poker player and some of the elements transfer from poker to bridge, but for now I'd say I can barely spell bridge.

I find this game fascinating though, and would like to improve as fast as I can through practice. What should I do? So far, here's what I have been doing:

- Read "bridge for dummies" and "25 conventions you should know"
- Downloaded "Learn to play bridge" series from BBO website and gone through the drills
- Played a bunch of instant tournaments on BBO + games with 3 robots for plugging obvious leaks in my bidding and learning from other players

I was wondering if this is a correct way of learning bridge. Maybe I should start posting some hands that I was unsure of? Also, does it help to have a long-term partner in this game so that we can learn, improve and play together? (I am assuming it is.)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance!

[NickRW]

There is no right or wrong answer to your question. Amongst the things you can do are: read basic books, practice a lot, post hands here you're unsure about.

With regard to practice, if you can find someone good at the game and can arrange to play a lot with that person, that is ideal. In the absence of that you can play a lot with different people - but take advice with a pinch of salt as there are many people who have opinions of how to play which are larger than their ability. You can take lessons with a bridge teacher (more likely to give good advice and not necessarily very expensive at all, but you'll have to go with their schedule) or even get a pro to partner you (better and more flexible, but more expensive naturally).

[deftist]

NickRW, on 2015-December-15, 05:06, said:

There is no right or wrong answer to your question. Amongst the things you can do are: read basic books, practice a lot, post hands here you're unsure about.

With regard to practice, if you can find someone good at the game and can arrange to play a lot with that person, that is ideal. In the absence of that you can play a lot with different people - but take advice with a pinch of salt as there are many people who have opinions of how to play which are larger than their ability. You can take lessons with a bridge teacher (more likely to give good advice and not necessarily very expensive at all, but you'll have to go with their schedule) or even get a pro to partner you (better and more flexible, but more expensive naturally).

Thanks for your prompt reply.

As for basic books, could you recommend me a few? Also, do you think practicing a lot with bots would help my game? I like it because when I hover my mouse to the different bidding options they tell me (briefly) what each bidding would mean, plus the fact that I am given a lot of time to think before making bidding/playing decision, but that also makes me sloppy sometimes. I would like to hear others' opinions on this.

[Cyberyeti]

For cardplay, the basic books don't alter, but for bidding, where you are geographically will influence which ones you should be reading as you want to learn the bidding system that people near you generally play.

[deftist]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-December-15, 05:22, said:

For cardplay, the basic books don't alter, but for bidding, where you are geographically will influence which ones you should be reading as you want to learn the bidding system that people near you generally play.

Ah I see. I live in the mid-western America. Not quite sure (yet) if there are many bridge players around me.

[NickRW]

deftist, on 2015-December-15, 05:09, said:

Thanks for your prompt reply.

As for basic books, could you recommend me a few?

I don't have many good ideas myself. Try reading some threads in the books sub-forum:
http://www.bridgebas...aterial-review/

Quote

Also, do you think practicing a lot with bots would help my game? I like it because when I hover my mouse to the different bidding options they tell me (briefly) what each bidding would mean, plus the fact that I am given a lot of time to think before making bidding/playing decision, but that also makes me sloppy sometimes. I would like to hear others' opinions on this.

Well, here is where things are neither right nor wrong. For me personally I'd steer clear of bots - simply because I don't like that way of playing. However, if you're comfortable with that, go for it. They say to take what they bid with a pinch salt, but they are competent with regard to card play. I understand they play a variant of 2/1 which is one of the bidding systems popular in your general part of the world at least.

[plaur]

This is a very good read for a novice: bobh2 on ranges
Its bobh2(RIP) talking about the purpose of bidding and ranges for novices. As a poker player I think you will apreciate and understand the range talk.
The two articles following this 'hand evaluation' and 'more on hand evaluation' are also very good but slighty more advanced. They are about adjusting ranges.

[deftist]

NickRW and plaur, thanks a lot. I will try those links first!

[wank]

i think being a pokerpro means you're very likely to have the skills to be very good at bridge. bidding is the hardest part of the game for most people to understand. it involves constant reevaluation of one's hand as new information (new bids from partner and the opps) comes to light.

to give you an example let's say you have aqxxx x qx aqxxx. this is a hand which offers a lot of potential. opposite the right 3 points in partner's hand, it can make 4 spades easily (5 spade tricks, 5 club tricks via a finesse and some ruffing let's say). equally, it can go to ***** quickly and you'll be offering a large penalty if you bid 4 spades and partner has no fit for you. like in poker, maybe you're betting your set on the flop and turn, and the flush comes on the river. you've been betting the pot and he's been getting crap odds to call, but you'd be foolish to call his all in just because you have a 'good hand'.

as for the best way to learn, play with someone good and go through the hands. if that's not possible, read the right books. i don't know what those are sadly. and post on here. the advice you get on here is far better than anything you'll hear from people on bbo who often talk crap. i wouldn't go for a bridge teacher. they're normally poor players who can only handle the very basics and they'll teach you things which will hinder you in the long term.

[NickRW]

wank, on 2015-December-15, 07:19, said:

i wouldn't go for a bridge teacher. they're normally poor players who can only handle the very basics and they'll teach you things which will hinder you in the long term.

It depends a bit on the teacher. I know two. One is good for the basics but can't take you much further. The other is very competent. It sounds to me like our friend here is very much at the beginner stage, so most teachers ought to be OK in the short term.

[deftist]

wank, on 2015-December-15, 07:19, said:

i think being a pokerpro means you're very likely to have the skills to be very good at bridge. bidding is the hardest part of the game for most people to understand. it involves constant reevaluation of one's hand as new information (new bids from partner and the opps) comes to light.

to give you an example let's say you have aqxxx x qx aqxxx. this is a hand which offers a lot of potential. opposite the right 3 points in partner's hand, it can make 4 spades easily (5 spade tricks, 5 club tricks via a finesse and some ruffing let's say). equally, it can go to ***** quickly and you'll be offering a large penalty if you bid 4 spades and partner has no fit for you. like in poker, maybe you're betting your set on the flop and turn, and the flush comes on the river. you've been betting the pot and he's been getting crap odds to call, but you'd be foolish to call his all in just because you have a 'good hand'.

as for the best way to learn, play with someone good and go through the hands. if that's not possible, read the right books. i don't know what those are sadly. and post on here. the advice you get on here is far better than anything you'll hear from people on bbo who often talk crap. i wouldn't go for a bridge teacher. they're normally poor players who can only handle the very basics and they'll teach you things which will hinder you in the long term.

Thanks a lot, man (I guess I'll have to say this a few more times ITT, as everyone has been so helpful!). I liked the poker analogy. Indeed, I guess there is some similarity between bidding in bridge and betting in poker. They can both occur on multiple rounds/streets, and the further we go, the narrower the ranges become. Actually, this is quite a fascinating element of these games!

I'll try to put in a lot of volume. Unfortunately I don't have any human players to play with atm, and instead I have been renting the $1/day robots and practicing with them. Good thing is I can take my time before going through bidding/playing decisions (robots don't give me any time pressure) and I feel like that's a better way to learn for me, at least for now.

Interesting remark about bridge teachers. I have been coaching lots of poker students, and am aware of pros and cons of coaching in general. Personally, I don't think I would need a teacher when I start off just because I think I can learn the fundamentals by myself. Well, at least that's what I did in poker, but maybe I'm wrong when it comes to bridge. Either way, I'll give it some thoughts for sure.

NickRW, on 2015-December-15, 07:55, said:

It depends a bit on the teacher. I know two. One is good for the basics but can't take you much further. The other is very competent. It sounds to me like our friend here is very much at the beginner stage, so most teachers ought to be OK in the short term.

Good point, Nick. I'll consider this. Thanks a lot again!

[billw55]

If you are truly a professional card player, then I expect you will advance beyond beginner material rapidly.

I recommend two books by Bill Root: How to Play a Bridge Hand, and How to Defend a Bridge Hand. They may be dry reading, but they are stuffed with examples of many standard techniques, and Root's explanation is easy to understand.

Also, I suggest you seek a couple of partners to play with regularly. To reach higher levels, the partnership aspect of the game cannot be ignored, nor can it be developed playing with randoms every time. Mutual understanding can win many boards.

A full time teacher may not be needed, but I do suggest some checkbacks with good players from time to time. One risk of being self-taught is that you will developed bad habits that can become hard to break.

[gwnn]

Since you're into computer bridge already, definitely do a bunch of Bridge Master problems on BBO. It's very cheap (0.25$ for half an hour) and fun. Also, Bridge Master has a wide range of difficulty levels so you're unlikely to exhaust its utility very quickly. You could also use bridgethink which is totally free, and also has defence problems. Reading a whole bridge book can be a bit boring...

[Vampyr]

All that has been said before is very valid, but I do not think that there is any substitute for playing with good players and discussing the hands. You could also play with players at your level and if there is discussion at the pub afterwards, you could listen and ask a few questions.

Also it is good to read up on conventionsso that you can play with others, but don't adopt them for the sake of it. If it is up to you, for instance if you find a partner at your level that is keen, adopt a convention only when you feel that your current system is failing on a certain hand-type, and can work out what to do with hands that you would have used the natural meaning of the bid for.

I assume that you have looked at the ACBL website to find local clubs; I am not sure how to find clubs that are not ACBL-affiliated.

[billw55]

Vampyr, on 2015-December-15, 14:26, said:

All that has been said before is very valid, but I do not think that there is any substitute for playing with good players and discussing the hands. You could also play with players at your level and if there is discussion at the pub afterwards, you could listen and ask a few questions.

+5, post mortem analysis is absolutely essential. I know this from chess and go also, and it is the same for bridge. Not every hand of course, but many, and particularly ones where you feel something unusual happened and/or you could have done better.

[deftist]

billw55, on 2015-December-15, 10:37, said:

If you are truly a professional card player, then I expect you will advance beyond beginner material rapidly.

I recommend two books by Bill Root: How to Play a Bridge Hand, and How to Defend a Bridge Hand. They may be dry reading, but they are stuffed with examples of many standard techniques, and Root's explanation is easy to understand.

Also, I suggest you seek a couple of partners to play with regularly. To reach higher levels, the partnership aspect of the game cannot be ignored, nor can it be developed playing with randoms every time. Mutual understanding can win many boards.

A full time teacher may not be needed, but I do suggest some checkbacks with good players from time to time. One risk of being self-taught is that you will developed bad habits that can become hard to break.

Thanks! I ordered those two books from Amazon. Having played poker for 7+ years now, I can't stress enough how important it is to develop a solid fundamental game, and I guess that applies to bridge too. I'll look into finding a few partners, although this will take some time.

gwnn, on 2015-December-15, 10:40, said:

Since you're into computer bridge already, definitely do a bunch of Bridge Master problems on BBO. It's very cheap (0.25$ for half an hour) and fun. Also, Bridge Master has a wide range of difficulty levels so you're unlikely to exhaust its utility very quickly. You could also use bridgethink which is totally free, and also has defence problems. Reading a whole bridge book can be a bit boring...

I will look into them. Just downloaded bridgethink and it looks pretty nice. I'll try BBO master problems too!

And yes, I'm into computer bridge already because well, I'm a lazy poker guy.

Vampyr, on 2015-December-15, 14:26, said:

All that has been said before is very valid, but I do not think that there is any substitute for playing with good players and discussing the hands. You could also play with players at your level and if there is discussion at the pub afterwards, you could listen and ask a few questions.

Also it is good to read up on conventionsso that you can play with others, but don't adopt them for the sake of it. If it is up to you, for instance if you find a partner at your level that is keen, adopt a convention only when you feel that your current system is failing on a certain hand-type, and can work out what to do with hands that you would have used the natural meaning of the bid for.

I assume that you have looked at the ACBL website to find local clubs; I am not sure how to find clubs that are not ACBL-affiliated.

Thanks! So far, I have been mostly reading "25 conventions you should know" because it seemed to have a good review and I figured it can't hurt to know them, even though that doesn't mean I am going to adopt them all.

This mindset comes from my poker background too, although I'm not sure if it is relevant here. In poker, I need to have a lot of lines in my arsenal and understand why people play differently, but that doesn't mean I need to use those lines myself all the time. A poor analogy maybe, but I think I get your point.

I haven't looked at the ACBL website yet, but will do so now.

billw55, on 2015-December-15, 15:14, said:

+5, post mortem analysis is absolutely essential. I know this from chess and go also, and it is the same for bridge. Not every hand of course, but many, and particularly ones where you feel something unusual happened and/or you could have done better.

Yes, I know this well from chess and poker too, and bridge seems to follow suit. I plan on doing this very soon - just started keeping a bridge journal where I will put some hands I played and analyse a bit. Thanks for your advice!

[kuhchung]

I actually really enjoyed Root's play and defense books. I didn't think they were dry like Watson's tome was.

I read it cover to cover multiple times while I was commuting to work.

[Charlie Yu]

Discussing with other players would be great for learning. Unlike poker, most bridge decision aren't opponent dependent.

[daffydoc]

Before focusing on conventions and bidding - learn to Play Bridge - that means card play and Defense. Read Watson on Play of the Hand, and I believe Reese has a good book on defense. My advie, learn to play then add the bidding toys later. Stayman and Jacoby are good bidding tools in the framework of 2/1 - but until you learn play and defense all the bidding toys in the world will do you NO GOOD. daffydco

[ggwhiz]

daffydoc, on 2015-December-16, 05:38, said:

Before focusing on conventions and bidding - learn to Play Bridge - that means card play and Defense. Read Watson on Play of the Hand, and I believe Reese has a good book on defense. My advie, learn to play then add the bidding toys later. Stayman and Jacoby are good bidding tools in the framework of 2/1 - but until you learn play and defense all the bidding toys in the world will do you NO GOOD. daffydco

Notice that Imps and Matchpoints are very different strategically. Face to Face we play mostly matchpoints locally and every year before the National Imp trials a mentor of mine would re-read Watson from cover to cover.

Mike Lawrence has 2 books, Play Bridge With (Matchpoints) and Play a Swiss Teams With (Imps) that are very good and I find his writing style easy to absorb.

Also(just my preference) play with real people, you can learn a lot by evaluating where they went wrong. The Relaxed Bridge Club has an abundance of examples and when you are comfortable with your speed the ACBL Individuals can be a hoot and an opportunity to find a compatible practice partner.

As to your comment above about having a lot of lines in your arsenal to understand how others play.... Absolutely and a good sign that you will enjoy and progress. I played 12-14 1nt openers for a full year only because it was flying high in Montreal and we had to learn how to beat them to get anywhere.