[kenberg]

We are playing imps, everyone vul.

---

I concede at the outset that my 1H overcall was not a great idea. I upped my club K from the club bid on my right, I have a stiff, but still... Anyway, it is what I did.

Now I have to decide what to do when partner's 2S comes back to me.

I can't recall if I have ever played with this partner before, but she is a thoroughly capable advanced layer. We have had no discussion about much of anything.

I would like to look at it this way: If I were to discuss this hand witha regular partner, what should be our agreement?

Does 2S promise heart support? Or maybe snapdragon applies and it in fact denies support? Snap, as I understand it, has (1C)-1D-(1S)-X is hearts with diamond tolerance while (1C)-1D-(1S)-2H is hearts only. Same here?
Is 2S forcing?
What do I do (other than regret ever bidding 1H in the first place)?


Now since I am asking about what agreements should be rather than this particular pick-up hand, I will show the hands but just for amusement.

---

The defense, reasonably enough, began with the king of diamonds, a small diamond to the Ace and then, reasonably or not, a third diamond. No beating it now. The defense coould have engineered two heart ruffs to go with the two top spades and the two diamonds, but this was not obvious.

We had only a brief discussion afterward. Partner said she thought it right to show spades (she does have seven!) and I said I thought maybe bridge logic should assure me she had hearts to go with her spades. A figured she probably had some hearts, but I decided to see if passing worked. At any rate, we just went on.

Not that I want to be in 3H and certainly not in 4H. As the title says, we were lucky. And still uncertain of what would be best for agreement I a regular partnership.

[kuhchung]

What's wrong with a 1H overcall?

Why does 2S show hearts according to bridge logic? QJT9xxx x Kxx Ax can't bid spades?

I imagine 2S is nfc by most NA pairs, and I would just pass and pray that partner has more than 5.

[wank]

passing 1c would be pathetic imo

[kenberg]

 kuhchung, on 2016-January-07, 14:06, said:

What's wrong with a 1H overcall?

Why does 2S show hearts according to bridge logic? QJT9xxx x Kxx Ax can't bid spades?

I imagine 2S is nfc by most NA pairs, and I would just pass and pray that partner has more than 5.

Since I did bid 1H and did pass 2S, and it all worked out, maybe I am just being weird. Still.

If the 2S call does not show at least a tolerance for hearts then I think she had better have quite a few spades (as she did). If I cannot conclude from 2S that there will be at least something like Kx in hearts then I will always pass 2S. unless i have great heart length. Here she has seven spades and they can still beat it. They didn't, but they could. So bidding this way with five is out and even six is risky, unless hearts are available for a run.

Maybe we both did fine, but I can't help thinking we dodged a bullet.

But let me ask a specific: Assume you play Snapdragon. I think of this as being for the one level as indicated. After (1C)-1D-(1S), I can bid 2H to show hearts or i can double to show hearts. Some might use that to distinguisg lengths, but Snapdragon uses it as X shows hearts plus diamond tolerance, 2H shows hearts w/o diamond tolerance. Of course then the 2H should have good length.
I suppose this could also be played that way after (1C)-1H-(2D). Now 2S is spades w/o hearts. X is spades with heart tolerance.
But is it generally played that way? Maybe it should be.

[kuhchung]

 kenberg, on 2016-January-07, 14:45, said:

But let me ask a specific: Assume you play Snapdragon. I think of this as being for the one level as indicated. After (1C)-1D-(1S), I can bid 2H to show hearts or i can double to show hearts. Some might use that to distinguisg lengths, but Snapdragon uses it as X shows hearts plus diamond tolerance, 2h shows hearts w/o diamond tolerance. Of course then the 2H should have good length.
I suppose this could also be played that way after (1C)-1H-(2D). Now 2S is spades w/o hearts. X is spades with heart tolerance.
But is it generally played that way? Maybe it should be.

this is what I play and I'd guess it's standard. I would still bid 2S with your partner's hand though

[billw55]

I am fine with 1♥. We do want a heart lead after all, off the gun or later.

Undiscussed I would take 2♠ as natural and nonforcing.

[rmnka447]

I am also fine with 1 ♥.

The question is "What is your basic agreement concerning a new suit bid by partner over your overcall?" What ever it is, it's probably best to retain it over interference, especially with a new partner.

Assuming it's nfc, then pass seems right with your hand. Partner knowing 2 ♠ could be passed has to have a pretty decent ♠ holding to come in freely at the 2 level. Partner's ♠ holding might or might not be useful at a ♥ contract. However, your HCs should be useful to partner in 2 ♠. So let partner play the hand.

[neilkaz]

Agreed with 1♥ and then pass if playing nfc. It is a good idea to discuss nfc or not with PD but these things often aren't happening online with a pickup or infrequent PD.

[kenberg]

 rmnka447, on 2016-January-08, 12:19, said:

I am also fine with 1 ♥.

The question is "What is your basic agreement concerning a new suit bid by partner over your overcall?" What ever it is, it's probably best to retain it over interference, especially with a new partner.

Assuming it's nfc, then pass seems right with your hand. Partner knowing 2 ♠ could be passed has to have a pretty decent ♠ holding to come in freely at the 2 level. Partner's ♠ holding might or might not be useful at a ♥ contract. However, your HCs should be useful to partner in 2 ♠. So let partner play the hand.

Right.
This was BBO, and while I have at times had at least some lengthy discussions with repeat partners, this was not the case here. We were on our own but I regard her as sane and capable.

At the completion of the hand she was somewhat apologetic for the spade bid instead of hearts, perhaps thinking I would regard her as being a hand grabber. Not at all, of course. BBO pick-up we do what seems right and hope we land on our feet.

But I may indeed bring up this hand with a partner that I play with more regularly.

For the 1H, if I come in on the light side I would rather the 6 points in my suit be something like KQJ9x instead of AQxxx. Partly because it is safer, and partly because it is more clear cut that I want a heart lead if we are on defense. But then I did bid it so I guess it meets my standards. At the lower end, definitely.

But now the question is how to play the 2S. I like the idea that it is not forcing and usually lacks a tolerance for hearts. Thus almost always the overcaller will pass or , with the right hand, raise. But with a 7 card suit headed by the QJT8 it seems reasonable, as has been mentioned, to bid it even when holding hearts. "What is a seven card suit called?" "Trump"

As for comparison with other overcall auctions:

I generally play that (1C)-1H-(Pass)-1S is constructive but not forcing. Maybe it is better to compare with (1C)-1H-(Pass)-2S. I like to play this as: Spades are expected to be trump and 2S should make opposite almost any overcall.. Not quite forcing but highly encouraging. After my heart overcall I would comfortably pass the jump to 2S, but with something more I would raise, even with the stiff. Here, with the intervening 2D, maybe it should be closer to competitive rather than the highly constructive call it is w/o the 2D.

[nige1]

IMO, the 1♥ overcall is OK, In Scotland, however, change of suit by an unpassed advancer is usually played F1.

[kenberg]

 nige1, on 2016-January-08, 20:17, said:

IMO, the 1♥ overcall is OK, In Scotland, however, change of suit by an unpassed advancer is usually played F1.

Fair enough, and I was not sure at the time that it wasn't intended as forcing. I really am not sure now. She has quite a good hand, she may well have been expecting to hear from me again.

Hence the title "We were lucky"

As I have said, on BBO we are often not sure what partner intends. I am fairly relaxed about that, but it can cause stress.