[euclidz]

What's the core difference between a situation invoking a solution from Law 13 as opposed to Law 14?

LAW 13: INCORRECT NUMBER OF CARDS
When the Director determines that one or more hands of the board contained an incorrect number of cards

LAW 14: MISSING CARD
When one or more hand(s) is/are found to contain fewer than 13 cards, with no hand having more than 13


Thanks

[pran]

euclidz, on 2016-March-20, 07:04, said:

What's the core difference between a situation invoking a solution from Law 13 as opposed to Law 14?

LAW 13: INCORRECT NUMBER OF CARDS
When the Director determines that one or more hands of the board contained an incorrect number of cards

LAW 14: MISSING CARD
When one or more hand(s) is/are found to contain fewer than 13 cards, with no hand having more than 13


Thanks

Law 13 is a general law applicable whenever any hand contains an incorrect number of cards and the conditions for applying Law 14 is not met.
A Law 13 ruling can either be that normal play (and scoring) is possible or that an adjusted score must be awarded.

Law 14 is a specific law applicable only when at least one of the 52 cards in the pack card is unaccounted for and no hand has been dealt more than 13 cards.
Law 14 considers several possibilities for this to happen and specifies the corresponding actions to be taken by the Director, the most severe ruling being that a missing card is deemed to have belonged continuously to the deficient hand. It may become a penalty card (Law 50), and failure to have played it may constitute a revoke.

[blackshoe]

Generally, I would say that Law 13 applies when you have too many cards in a hand, but the other three have 13, or when you have too many cards in a hand, and another or others has/have the same number too few. Essentially, if a card is "missing", it's in another hand. Law 14 applies when the TD has to search for the missing card (even if it's, say, still in the board).

[euclidz]

Law 13/14. If a hand is found to contain more of less than 13 cards and that hand has not been viewed find the missing card and replace it. If the hand has been viewed misplaced card may become a MPC and an adjusted score may be appropriate. If the hand has been played investigate the possibility of a revoke.

If that is it why does it take 3 pages to say it.......but is that it?

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2016-March-20, 09:56, said:

Generally, I would say that Law 13 applies when you have too many cards in a hand, but the other three have 13, or when you have too many cards in a hand, and another or others has/have the same number too few. Essentially, if a card is "missing", it's in another hand. Law 14 applies when the TD has to search for the missing card (even if it's, say, still in the board).

Law 13 applies whenever there are too many or too few cards in a hand except for the special case when it is found that originally at least one hand had less than thirteen cards and no hand had more than thirteen cards (in which case Law 14 applies).

When the Director searches for a missing card it may be found among the quitted tricks (in which case Law 67 applies), in another player's hand, left in the board or on the floor etc. etc. He might even eventually find it left behind in his own home at his card dealing machine (yes - that has indeed happened to me). No matter where that missing card can be found, so long as we are in Law 14 territory the ruling is the same: That card is deemed to have belonged continuously to the deficient hand - period.

[pran]

euclidz, on 2016-March-20, 12:18, said:

Law 13/14. If a hand is found to contain more of less than 13 cards and that hand has not been viewed find the missing card and replace it. If the hand has been viewed misplaced card may become a MPC and an adjusted score may be appropriate. If the hand has been played investigate the possibility of a revoke.

If that is it why does it take 3 pages to say it.......but is that it?

As far as I am able to figure it out the best thing that can be said about this "summary" is that it is highly inaccurate.

[euclidz]

pran, on 2016-March-20, 14:10, said:

As far as I am able to figure it out the best thing that can be said about this "summary" is that it is highly inaccurate.

Thanks for reply No.5

I more helpful answer would have been . . . . this summary is inaccurate, a more accurate summary would be . . . . . . .

My posts in this section are me asking for help in learning and understanding a set of rules which are *****.

[pran]

euclidz, on 2016-March-21, 05:36, said:

I more helpful answer would have been . . . . this summary is inaccurate, a more accurate summary would be . . . . . . .

as both blackshoe and I have tried to provide three times already?

euclidz, on 2016-March-21, 05:36, said:

My posts in this section are me asking for help in learning and understanding a set of rules which are *****.

And that is exactly what we are trying to give to you.

Apparently with questionable success?

[campboy]

euclidz, on 2016-March-20, 07:04, said:

What's the core difference between a situation invoking a solution from Law 13 as opposed to Law 14?

There are three common ways that a player can have the wrong number of cards.

• One or more cards are missing from the board.
  
• One or more cards from another board are mixed in.
  
• The board has the right number of cards, but they are incorrectly distributed between the players.

Law 14 only deals with the first case. Law 13 covers the other two.

[jnichols]

campboy, on 2016-March-22, 04:51, said:

There are three common ways that a player can have the wrong number of cards.

• One or more cards are missing from the board.
• One or more cards from another board are mixed in.
• The board has the right number of cards, but they are incorrectly distributed between the players.

Law 14 only deals with the first case. Law 13 covers the other two.

4. A player has played an incorrect number of cards to a trick.

[blackshoe]

That's Law 67, not 13 or 14.

[pran]

jnichols, on 2016-March-22, 21:21, said:

4. A player has played an incorrect number of cards to a trick.

blackshoe, on 2016-March-22, 22:20, said:

That's Law 67, not 13 or 14.

It is indeed Law 14B1 (which points to Law 67)

[blackshoe]

"The answer you seek is not here (in Law 14). It is in Law 67."

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2016-March-23, 10:04, said:

"The answer you seek is not here (in Law 14). It is in Law 67."

TD starts with searching for the missing card, that is Law 14.
When he finds it among the already played cards Law 14B1 tells him to continue with Law 67.

[campboy]

This case doesn't really come under the topic, because laws 13 and 14 are talking about all the cards in the hand, not just the unplayed cards. However, it may initially appear that that the hand had fewer than 13 cards, which is why Law 14 helpfully tells you which Law to go to if you discover this while investigating a "missing card".

[pran]

campboy, on 2016-March-24, 05:04, said:

This case doesn't really come under the topic, because laws 13 and 14 are talking about all the cards in the hand, not just the unplayed cards. However, it may initially appear that that the hand had fewer than 13 cards, which is why Law 14 helpfully tells you which Law to go to if you discover this while investigating a "missing card".

We always start with Law 13 or 14 under this topic:

Law 13A said:

When the Director determines that one or more hands of the board contained an incorrect number of cards (but see Law 14) [...]

Note the past tense of the word "contained".

Law 14B said:

When one or more hand(s) is/are found to contain fewer than 13 cards, with no hand having more than 13, at any time after the opening lead is faced (until the end of the Correction Period), the Director makes a search for any missing card, and: [...]

so it is quite clear that both laws apply regardless of how many cards have been played at the time the error condition is discovered.

Thus if at any time during the play one hand is found to have less cards remaining to be played than have the other hands will the Director search for the missing card as instructed in Law 14. (Only) if the missing card is found among the cards already played from the deficient hand will he then continue applying Law 67.