[pescetom]

I am interested to know the percentage of players using each major bidding system (and/or family of systems).
In particular, within the 5 card major family, how many are playing 2/1 versus SAYC versus other, at any level (world, BBO, US, Europe, Asia or whatever).
My impression is that 2/1 is rapidly advancing over every alternative and I am curious to know if there is evidence to confirm/deny this.
Does anyone have any data or links to useful studies?
Or at least informed judgement on their own country?

[awm]

pescetom, on 2016-November-13, 16:22, said:

I am interested to know the percentage of players using each major bidding system (and/or family of systems).
In particular, within the 5 card major family, how many are playing 2/1 versus SAYC versus other, at any level (world, BBO, US, Europe, Asia or whatever).
My impression is that 2/1 is rapidly advancing over every alternative and I am curious to know if there is evidence to confirm/deny this.
Does anyone have any data or links to useful studies?
Or at least informed judgement on their own country?

There is still a lot of dependance on where you're from. In the US:

1. At the level of tournament players, 2/1 is by far the most common general approach.
2. Among top experts, 2/1 is probably still most common, but strong club systems (usually based on Meckwell) have a very strong following and are well-represented on our national teams.
3. Among weaker club-level players, you still see a fair amount of "standard american" (it's not really SAYC, almost no one plays SAYC); I think 2/1 is still the majority in open club games though.

From my limited experience of other countries:

1. A basic form of precision is very common in China; almost every Chinese pair in Sanya had this approach.
2. Polish club is common in Poland, although some of the top experts have moved to other things.
3. Top French pairs seem to all stick close to French standard (I think it's 2/1 except suit rebid with both 2m openings strong).
4. I'm sure there are still many Acol players in England, but the English internationalists I've encountered usually play 2/1.

[akwoo]

At what level of play?

2/1 is too complicated (meaning it has too many artificial bids) for the average tournament player in my area.

[johnu]

akwoo, on 2016-November-13, 16:45, said:

At what level of play?

2/1 is too complicated (meaning it has too many artificial bids) for the average tournament player in my area.

What area do you play? 2/1 is the predominant tournament system in the US and I seriously doubt that the average US player is better than the average player in other countries. As far as artificial gadgets go, you don't really need to play more of them in a 2/1 context.

[akwoo]

johnu, on 2016-November-13, 17:29, said:

What area do you play? 2/1 is the predominant tournament system in the US and I seriously doubt that the average US player is better than the average player in other countries. As far as artificial gadgets go, you don't really need to play more of them in a 2/1 context.

US - inland Northwest. Maybe 60% can handle Jacoby 2N - less than half want to handle 1N forcing. Forget about Lebensohl.

The truth is that, once you get out of major urban areas, the standard of bridge is quite low.

[msjennifer]

No one has done a massive statistical survey in each and every country to demonstrate in actual percentage the number of players playing different systems.It is nor very wise to conclude that 2/1 GF is becoming popular all over.Even most of the average players find it difficult to handle 2/1 as they get stuck when the partner opens 1S/H and they have 10/11 goodish HCP,withoutresorting to a forcing 1NT response.Further difficulties in other distributional hands require the knowledge of NSF,4th suit,New suit by opener or responder forcing or not,what to do when opponents intervene and many other situations require partnership development or a thorough knowledge of conventions and gadgets if one wants to reach a higher level.In this respect I wish to politely point out that many players who play a standard system have resorted to 2/1 forcing only upto 2NT or 3 of Rebid suit. Precision,Meckstroth,Polish club,Acol ,French,Strong club,and even Papa-Momma system,Standard with four card majors,and some uncommon ones like the ladder system,I have personally played against all of them.Every system has its merits and demerits and if one has to reach an expert level one has to know and understand innumerable artificial bids and conventions.For day to day or BBO ,I ,personally , feel SAYC is "the least of all evils" so to say.

[Kungsgeten]

I think there's a diffrence between styles and systems. To me the original post seems to be more about style, in particular after opening a five card major. Since I live in Sweden I'll discuss the styles and systems here:

The Swedish standard system is a natural system with four card majors/minors (with 4-4 you typically open in the order hearts, clubs, spades, diamonds) and strong NT (15-17), weak twos and strong 2C/2NT. 2/1 can be invitational, so not GF. Strong jump shifts.

Now many people play this framework, but instead play 2/1 as GF, and perhaps weak jump shifts, and maybe 2D multi and other choices for the two-level openings.

Five card majors is common too, especially at higher levels of play. Most still play strong NT. I'd say at higher levels that almost everyone plays 2/1 as GF, or maybe "GF unless responder rebids his suit". In my experience, 5533 (American standard, five card majors and three card minors) is pretty uncommon, instead most play 5542 instead (short club). Some play transfer responses to 1C, but not the average club player. In Denmark the standard is 5443 (spades promise five, but hearts may be four), and we have one pair at our club playing that style.

Strong club is not uncommon, and usually combined with five card majors, strong NT and nebulous diamond. Playing 2C as 6+C and 2D as three-suiter (as in American precision) is very uncommon. Instead 2C as 5+C and 2D as some sort of preemptive bid is more common (so opening 1D can be 4-4-1-4). Some play strong club combined with four card majors, then basically Swedish standard adopted to a strong club format. I'd say that 2/1 as GF is the norm in these strong club systems too. At high levels strong club, five card majors and both 2C and 2D as natural has reached good results, so some pairs play that. Then 1D is "weak NT or unbalanced with a four card major and longer minor".

I rarely play against weak NT or mini NT, but some players play that. It can be combined with strong club, or natural four/five card majors.

Sweden's system rules are very liberal, but "weird" systems are rare. "Swedish Club" is a system where 1C is either a weak NT or a strong hand (similar to Polish Club, but intermediate hands with clubs is excluded). That system was popular at higher levels some decades ago, but is now rare (even though I play it myself). Forcing pass systems have also been played at higher levels, but are very uncommon.

Regarding 2/1 as GF or not, a modern trend seem to be to use 2C as a GF relay: some use it as clubs or balanced, while others bid it with various GF hands. I think this will become even more common, especially at higher levels, and perhaps as a result other 2/1 bids will become artificial.

[helene_t]

Here in the North of England, if someone says they are willing to play "anything" it means they can play both weak and strong 2-openings, and use either standard attitude or suit pref when discarding. Any nt range other than 12-14 is considered artificial.

If you tell opps that you don't play Acol they think it means that you don't play bridge.

[Vampyr]

I find that in London, among people who play 5-card majors about 1/4 to 1/3 of them play 2/1 GF.

[GrahamJson]

In the U.K. Acol 12-14 is pretty much standard amongst club players I believe. Although what constitutes Acol these days is debatable as most players include all sorts of variations. Amongst top players 2/1 appears to dominate. I note that the Bridge Magazine standard system, used in its monthly bidding quiz, used to be Acol based but switched this year to 2/1.

I used to live in the Middle East, amongst other places, and played in clubs where players came from all over. They all played simple systems based on 15-17 and 5card majors. My partner and I played very simple Acol (apart from multi), not even using negative doubles. I had to regularly explain that although we played four card majors if we opened 1S or 1H it could sometimes actually be more than four.

The club where I played in Kuwait is probably unique in being the nay bridge club in the world with a prayer room. I was tempted to use it on one or two occasions when dummy went down.

[ShirleyMqz]

Around here it depends a lot on what level of competition you are talking about. The serious players are mostly playing 2/1, with a minority playing strong club systems, an occasional K/S pair, and a few holdouts still playing Standard American. But there are lots of novices and older players who are playing some form of Standard American. If you go to a club it depends a lot on whether you go to a weekday daytime game (mostly SA) or an evening game (larger percentage of 2/1). At a tournament Flight A will mostly be 2/1 but the 299ers and lower will be mostly SA.

[msjennifer]

Vampyr, on 2016-November-14, 10:25, said:

I find that in London, among people who play 5-card majors about 1/4 to 1/3 of them play 2/1 GF.

So that leaves 67-75 percent who DO NOT !

[msjennifer]

I have it from most authentic sources that almost all (90 plus percent) players in Maharashtra state India play a peculiar Strong club(18+) system with 15/17 NT and a 1 D opening(diamond may be void),and a modified precision type of 2 C opening.,5 or 4 card majors etc No one has heard of standard system except those who play on BBO.A few beginners play the ladder system ( 12-14C,15/17D,18-20 H,21/24S and 25 plus NT.) Very few (20percent) know about uncommon gadgets and conventions.2/1 is usually GF but it is nonforcing on a passed hand and also the volume of the bid or the swiftness or slowness of putting the call card on the table.In Bengal, most play old fashioned 5 card major system with gadgets,some others play a Precision.,In North India ,it is practically all strong club system,I am grateful to some Indian players who play onBBO regularly,for supplying the facts.

[msjennifer]

Whereas,here in England,in most clubs the older members are still addicted to Acol,many of them have modified it as given in the book " Acol in the Nineties".In some clubs I found players playing the Four card major Standard system as devised by Terence Reese.But the "little major system " is not used by any.I found three couples in their nineties playing Culbertson Honor Tricks system with Culbertson asking bids etc.in their household " evening tea" sessions.Younger layers are using all sorts of systems with their own modifications. in the USA,many pairs are using Meckwell.Standard American or versions of Strong Club e.g. Precision or Blue Club.Roman club and Neapolitan club,Leghorn diamond are nowhere seen.2/1 is certainly becoming popular over there.I regret that I was unsuccessful in communicating with other countries in such a short time.

[helene_t]

msjennifer, on 2016-November-14, 13:15, said:

I have it from most authentic sources that almost all (90 plus percent) players in Maharashtra state India play a peculiar Strong club(18+) system with 15/17 NT and a 1 D opening(diamond may be void),and a modified precision type of 2 C opening.,5 or 4 card majors etc No one has heard of standard system except those who play on BBO.A few beginners play the ladder system ( 12-14C,15/17D,18-20 H,21/24S and 25 plus NT.)

Yes that is my impression also, in Mumbai and Pune most played Bombay Club.

[nige1]

IMO, 2 important influences on system are:

• System regulation. If sponsors have a problem with a convention, then regulators ban it or impose severe restrictions on it. Hence, it's unlikely to become popular (e.g. encrypted signals, forcing pass). At the other extreme, If regulators or their friends want to play a convention, then they relax relevant disclosure rules and prevent effective defence to it. e.g. in the ACBL jurisdiction, we're told that the 2/1 short-club on a 2-card suit has been redefined as "natural"! it no longer requires an alert; and artificial defences to it are banned or restricted.
• On-line play. Pick-up partners from different countries like to have default agreements. For example, BBO players have standardised and popularised 2/1.

[OliverC]

nige1, on 2016-November-15, 04:15, said:

IMO, 2 important influences on system are:

• System regulation. If regulators ban a convention or impose severe restrictions on it, then it is unlikely to become popular (e.g. encrypted signals, forcing pass). At the other extreme, If regulators or their friends want to play a convention, then they can relax relevant disclosure rules and handicap effective defence to it. e.g. in ACBL jurisdictions, we're told that the 2/1 short-club on a 2-card suit has been redefined as "natural"! it no longer requires an alert; and artificial defences to it are banned or restricted.
• On-line play. Pick-up partners from different countries like to have default agreements. For example, BBO has standardised and popularised 2/1.

Agreed nige1. I have no specific evidence for this other than my own experience, but suspect that if face-to-face bridge is declining in the UK or USA, one of the major reasons is the stifling attitude of the Bridge authorities there towards any systems or conventions that are outside their own narrow comfort zone. Similarly, online Bridge is demonstrably growing. On BBO you can play pretty much any system and carding you like unless you decide to subject yourself to an ACBL tourney. Moreover the facilities on BBO are second to none for anyone wanting to develop or experiment with new bidding methods or gadgets

Oliver

[661_Pete]

awm, on 2016-November-13, 16:45, said:

4. I'm sure there are still many Acol players in England, but the English internationalists I've encountered usually play 2/1.

I think you'll find there are plenty in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, too!

helene_t, on 2016-November-14, 05:04, said:

If you tell opps that you don't play Acol they think it means that you don't play bridge.

Well I've never come across that attitude myself - not where I come from! Mind you, the question doesn't often arise.

msjennifer, on 2016-November-14, 23:28, said:

Whereas,here in England,in most clubs the older members are still addicted to Acol...

Hmmmmm......

OliverC, on 2016-November-15, 07:43, said:

if face-to-face bridge is declining in the UK or USA

And yet more condescending remarks.....

OK. I can't speak for everyone of course, and I fully understand that people posting on forums can be a bit patronising - but remember this. Bridge at the social level (which is how I - and possibly millions of others - play it) wouldn't survive if it weren't for the 'older' contingent. Indeed I've partnered someone who was 101 years old - and still a decent player! We are the generation who have got time to indulge ourselves in the game. And if we're slow to learn 'new tricks', you'll have to forgive us!

If bridge at the cut-throat, competitive level is 'declining' in its face-to-face form, well that's obviously sad for those who follow that scene. I can assure folks, there are plenty of local, friendly clubs around my way - and some of them have a waiting list!

[barmar]

nige1, on 2016-November-15, 04:15, said:

e.g. in ACBL jurisdictions, we're told that the 2/1 short-club on a 2-card suit has been redefined as "natural"! it no longer requires an alert; and artificial defences to it are banned or restricted.

Are you talking about opening 1♣ with a 2-card suit? It's only considered natural if you only do it with exactly 4=4=3=2 shape. It still requires a "could be short" announcement. I've never heard that this is considered part of the 2/1 system (very few of the 2/1 players I know use it), it's just something some players tack onto whatever system they're playing.

Or are you talking about opener rebidding 2♣ after a forcing NT with 4-5=2=2 shape? That's just a necessary evil unless you play Flannery.

[StevenG]

msjennifer, on 2016-November-14, 23:28, said:

Whereas,here in England,in most clubs the older members are still addicted to Acol

Here in England, most clubs only have older members.