[wank]

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imps noone vul

[steve2005]

I was taught to bid over preempts assuming partner has about 8 pts and 2 card support. If you don't assume partner has something you will be robbed blind.
The down side if partner has a bust you've overbid.
So I believe South should bid 4♠.

[Cyberyeti]

Not clear with the preempt how good this game is and how you play it, not sure I'd blame anybody much.

[broze]

South might do more - if NS were vul I would be quite nervous to bid only 3S. I think pass from North is automatic. Not all that much blame.

[SteveMoe]

100% to West, surely...

[eagles123]

preempts work

[ahydra]

No blame. 4S looks nervewracking anyway with the clubs needing to be unblocked.

ahydra

[MrAce]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-January-21, 17:40, said:

Not clear with the preempt how good this game is and how you play it, not sure I'd blame anybody much.

ahydra, on 2017-January-22, 03:25, said:

No blame. 4S looks nervewracking anyway with the clubs needing to be unblocked.

ahydra

Jesus!
Now I can understand the "no blame" part in the auction but the complaints about 4♠ contract?
You almost have a claim when your 8 card fit spade splits 3-2 or 4-1 when someone has stiff J or Q and it is IMPs!
So assume they played 3 rounds of ♦ and you ruffed, even if you just cash ♠ AK you have close to a 80% game at imps. It is probably less than this due to the preempt as Cyber mentioned but noway it will reduce this to a level where you do not want to be in game.
When you calculate the number of vacant places due to preempt (assuming W has 7 and E has stiff ♦) QJxx with W is about 1.26% QJxx with E is 20% and QJxxx with E is about 9%. So yea the 3♦ opening reduces it by approximately 10% from 80% to 70% game.
I wish all my nerve-wrecking games were like this!

[rmnka447]

So if NV the hand were ♠ KQ9xxx ♥ Axx ♦ xx ♣ xx would you pass out 3 ♦? Somehow I'd think most people would find a 3 ♠ bid with that holding to fight for the part score. If that's the case, then partner will never be able to decipher that 3 ♠ might be bid on this actual 16 point 6 loser hand.

So it comes down to either doubling and hoping to bid ♠ in the 2nd round, or, bidding 4 ♠ straight up. Take your choice, but do one or the other.

Me, with a reasonably good ♠ holding, I'd bid 4 ♠ and hope for the best. Don't know if it will make or not but it puts the opponents under pressure to make the next decision.

[johnu]

ahydra, on 2017-January-22, 03:25, said:

No blame. 4S looks nervewracking anyway with the clubs needing to be unblocked.

Agree, playing 3♠ will be more more soothing on the nerves

[Cyberyeti]

MrAce, on 2017-January-22, 04:10, said:

Jesus!
Now I can understand the "no blame" part in the auction but the complaints about 4♠ contract?
You almost have a claim when your 8 card fit spade splits 3-2 or 4-1 when someone has stiff J or Q and it is IMPs!
So assume they played 3 rounds of ♦ and you ruffed, even if you just cash ♠ AK you have close to a 80% game at imps. It is probably less than this due to the preempt as Cyber mentioned but noway it will reduce this to a level where you do not want to be in game.
When you calculate the number of vacant places due to preempt (assuming W has 7 and E has stiff ♦) QJxx with W is about 1.26% QJxx with E is 20% and QJxxx with E is about 9%. So yea the 3♦ opening reduces it by approximately 10% from 80% to 70% game.
I wish all my nerve-wrecking games were like this!

3 rounds of diamonds is easy, try it on a stiff/doubleton looking heart to the 10-A.

There are plenty of bad things that can happen, and it's quite likely you won't get a diamond lead if preemptor has AQ.

[MrAce]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-January-22, 14:02, said:

3 rounds of diamonds is easy, try it on a stiff/doubleton looking heart to the 10-A.

There are plenty of bad things that can happen, and it's quite likely you won't get a diamond lead if preemptor has AQ.

If they lead anything else than diamonds, simply cash AK of spades and play 3 rd, you are still playing a decent game. Any game at imps with more than 50% odds to make is decent enough to play.
But do not forget, if W leads anything other than diamonds, and he is short, that reduces the bad break odds in spades.

[ggwhiz]

In my partnership a 3♠ balance here just shows general optimism and this hand calls for double followed by 3♠.

[Cyberyeti]

MrAce, on 2017-January-22, 16:00, said:

If they lead anything else than diamonds, simply cash AK of spades and play 3 rd, you are still playing a decent game. Any game at imps with more than 50% odds to make is decent enough to play.
But do not forget, if W leads anything other than diamonds, and he is short, that reduces the bad break odds in spades.

1273 not unlikely, what are you doing if an honour drops from W under the ♠A btw ?

[MrAce]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-January-22, 16:59, said:

1273 not unlikely, what are you doing if an honour drops from W under the ♠A btw ?

1273 and led ♥?

Anyway if W drops an honor on A, I may play Q of clubs, pretending like I am finessing to get a count. Probably cash the K of clubs too and play small to the T of spades. Will pay of if W did this from Hxx or QJx ♠ and stiff ♥ He should not have doubleton ♥ + 3 spades when he followed 2 rounds of clubs and especially when he did not lead clubs. Or I may decide to always cash AK of spades.
E dropping an honor is more tricky but if he had HHxx, I was gonna pay him anyway by cashing AK of spades.
In any case, 4 ♠ has much better odds than most games we play daily at imps Even if you cash AK of spades regardless of what they lead and drop 4♠ is a decent contract as oppose to you what you and ahydra thinks.
You have to understand that just because you have more than 1 clear way to play the hand and the odds are close to each other, does not make a game a bad one. That 4♠ has decent odds to play at imps, despite the 3♦ preempt and despite your attempts to change the subject we are debating on.

Cyberyeti, on 2017-January-21, 17:40, said:

Not clear with the preempt how good this game is and how you play it, not sure I'd blame anybody much.

Otoh, I agree with you that it may not be clear how to play it and I agree that it is not easy to blame the auction. It probably helps to know who the W player is and what he led and in which tempo he dropped an honor on my ♠K. (not A)

[P_Marlowe]

South, if there is blame, which I am not sure.
North has no assurance of a fit.

[P_Marlowe]

<duplicate>

[gszes]

N should go ahead and bid 4s at IMPS (at MP pass since reaching game not so big a deal). N is around max for what p might expect but also has some extra plusses that make stretching for game worthwhile.
1. Relatively long diamonds increase the likelihood south is short in diamonds.
2. doubleton support is hardly wonderful but at least its a couple more spades the opps do not have.
3. Possible source of length tricks in hearts
4. club ace is a good game card and a possible entry to long hearts.

Preempts work and I applaud the 3s bidder for having good discipline with this ho hum suit.

Some have suggested a x here but there is a small chance we can really get overboard is N happens to have long clubs and we have to ruff diamonds with the KQ of clubs. Too much risk for too small a reward. I would rate pass as a better option than x.